A Seminar in Cyperspace: Prof. Peter Kollock's Sociology 285K/197H Department of Sociology University of California at Los Angeles Spring, 1993 Edited by Bruce Henstell izzyok9@mvs.oac.ucla.edu CONTENTS Editor's Introduction, Including a Brief Note Regarding Peter Kollock iii Invitation to a Virtual Seminar, and Sociology 285K/197H Reading List viii A Note Regarding the Transcript, and the Conventions of MediaMOO xvi The Transcript 1 An Afterword xix Editor's Introduction I thought I knew what to expect. I should preface that statement with a personal note. As the 1992-1993 school year began, I was looking around for a seminar outside of my home school and ended up taking Prof. Melvin Pollner's seminar in EPOS: Ethnomethodological, phenomenological and observational sociology. About all I knew of the subject as the class began was that that was a mouthful. Taking this seminar, over the faint objections of Prof. Pollner who was not precisely sure what someone from something called library/information science wanted with EPOS, proved to be an wise decision. It was masterful introduction to a complex body of thought, which, it seemed to me, offered a number of insights into my field. And, it was thoroughly enjoyable to boot. I was primed and ready to take a flier, then, when Prof. Pollner mentioned in passing that in the spring there would be offered a seminar on cyperspace. As a Ph.D. student in Library/Information Science at UCLA I had had some background, and strong interest in, what sometimes is called the network environment, but which I can never think of hereafter as anything but cyperspace. When the spring approached Prof. Pollner suggested I talk with Prof. Peter Kollock would be conducting the seminar. We chatted briefly one afternoon, and he readily agreed to my taking the course. A few days after this meeting it occurred to me that Prof. Kollock had only briefly mentioned his interests in sociology, social construction and a vague interest in Ethnomethodology. He really hadn't said very much. I knew nothing, really, about where Prof. Kollock was coming from other than he had won an award for distinguished teaching, which rates high in my book. I called him back a few days later and suggested that since I had some time over break, if there were any theoretical materials he thought someone from outside the field should have, I was willing to do some extra reading. He indicated that wouldn't be necessary. Like I said, I thought I knew what to expect. And that included a lot of reading and a lot of theoretical reading and a lot of theoretical exegesis. Sociology loves formal analysis. I knew this seminar was to be something else again when we gathered for the first meeting. First, half the class was drawn from fields outside sociology, including electrical engineering, English, women's studies and even a young women from biology, I think it was (I'm not too sure what they call themselves down on the south side of campus). And, instead of diving into deep textual waters, Kollock encouraged the class, from the outset, to describe feelings and perceptions, and, as we moved along, to relate experiences in cyperspace, surfing the Internet, following odd pathways through Usenet, or stumbling through the corners of LambdaMOO or MediaMOO which became our unofficial home. As these discussions continued, it was sort of as if Jason called the argonauts together on the deck of the "Golden Fleece" each night for a little palaver. "Hey, we're sailing in uncharted waters, fellow cybernauts. What of interest happened to you today?" These first-hand experiences provided fodder for some of the most interesting and spirited discussions we had, often taking up half each meeting's three hours. People expressed their confusion and often anger at being kicked around, abused or tossed in swimming pools on various MOOs. Two women "met" male-presenting characters, and really can be said to have "dated" them. Men as well as women struck up friendships which were occasionally darkened by suspicions the other was not the sex they were presented to be (and what did that matter?). I discovered dancing in the ballroom in MediaMOO, which was somehow more enjoyable in drag. It was so easy to slip into a slinky negligee and camp out for the evening. This may have been the result of some past life experiences on the stage and that I used to study improvisation. I was somewhat surprised to learn that most of my classmates preferred to present themselves as they were IRL, including insisting that when dancing, I "lead." There were as well spirited discussions concerning political rights, free speech, and crime and punishment in cyperspace. The discussion table divided itself, between those who viewed cyberspace as a true last frontier, a land without boundaries (what might be called the post-modernist approach), those who saw it as a frontier but one in which the cattlemen and the sheep headers and the townspeople had to band together for the sake of community and the preservation and expansion of, if not the land exactly, what the land stood for, and those felt that cyperspace would mirror fairly closely both the sociology and the political ideology of real life. After the first meeting of the class, students were encouraged, assigned really, to haunt the microcomputer labs at Haines and Bunche Hall or sign-on from home, and warned that there was no substitute for hours spent on a terminal figuring out the often arcane methods by which and through which communication is attempted in the great electronic out there. I signed on from home for the most part and often would find a fellow student on late at night. It was enjoyable to use local talk to chat up what was new. We had talked briefly about having an actual on-line class meeting. I had attended several of the events at MediaMOO and while they were chaotic to say the least, they were certainly out of the ordinary assemblages. Along the way I discovered the MediaMOO TV studio, constructed by cdr and PaulB, two faculty members from a small college in Iowa, I believe. I had, in another life, some background in film and video. The idea of a virtual video studio was just too wonderful for words. I immediately decided I wanted to do my term paper as a MediaMOO documentary. PeterK accused me of wanting to get back into the business, and he was probably right. The MediaMOO TV studio was complete down to the details. It was like those incredibly elaborate doll houses you only see in museums, presented with such conviction that they are "real," that they irresistibly draw you in and make you regret being full-sized. Except in the case of the MediaMOO Studio you could actually take the doll-sized cameras and vcrs and tapes and go out and use them, and then come back and pop some popcorn and watch America's smallest home videos scroll by your screen. Of course, the pattern and path of a body IRL running video equipment was duplicated in the commands one had to issue to use the equipment, lending absolute conviction. My hat is off to cdr and PaulB for creating the best toy/tool ever. Eventually I relaxed my expectations about cobbling together a full-length documentary in favor of staging and "shooting" a virtual seminar as the last meeting of the class. I'm glad I did because it turned out to be a thoroughly enjoyable experience. The class gathered in one computer lab on campus. The transcript of that meeting follows, after which I add a brief note about the experience. A Brief Note Regrding Peter Kollock Peter Kollock holds the Ph.D. in Sociology from the University of Washington (1990) in Washington state, and the MA and BA from Washington as well. His Ph.D. dissertation was on "The Evolution of Cooperation," and involved computer simulations and experiments designed to study how cooperation emerges among groups. This work looked at the effects of imperfect information, and studied the usefulness of different accounting systems used to keep track of exchanges in an on-going relationship. His background interests include perspectives in social construction and social exchange theory. His current research revolves around issues of co-operation in social groups, i.e. trust, commitment, social order and deviance. Kollock is currently preparing, with seminar member and sociology graduate student Marc Smith, a major work on the Sociology of Cyberspace for Sage (forthcoming: 1995). This work will be one of the first major investigations directed at comprehending the sociology of computer worlds. Kollock is probably unique in being one of the few residents of the Pacific Northwest to actually travel to, much less settle in, Southern California. He accepted an invitation to join the faculty at UCLA convinced that the department represented a "diverse and impressive set of colleagues. This is the most exciting sociology department in the country right now." Kollock recounts that his interest in computers began in the "dinosaur" days of the early 1980's. "I was the first in my department to have a computer, including the faculty and was frequently pressed into service helping them get set up. "When graduate school began in earnest, Kollock says he "hung up my modem." But he kept an interest in topics of social exchange, interaction and dramaturgy as these themes were elaborated on the nets. The seminar in sociology came about in that Kollock had an open slot "in which I could teach on anything I wanted to." He had become increasingly interested in cyberspace as a result of chairing the MA committee of graduate student Marc Smith, whose dissertation focused on the social structure and interaction on the WELL. Kollock then decided to offer S285K, Special Topics in Sociology, on the Sociology of Cyberspace, probably one of the first such seminars in the university setting. Kollock was, and is increasingly convinced the network environment, cyberspace, offers the sociologist an unparalleled opportunity. Not only to observe a developing social world, but to collect, easily store and review the traces of those observations. AN INVITATION You are cordially invited to attend the final spring meeting of Sociology 285K (The Sociology of Cyberspace), originating from UCLA in Los Angeles. The meeting will be held in MediaMOO: Autumn Conference Room, STS Centre, on Tuesday afternoon, June 8, 3:30 to 5:00 PM PDT. =============================================================> Telnet address: purple-crayon.media.mit.edu 8888 >From within MediaMOO type: out STS up Autumn Our aim is to summarize and extend our discussions in a virtual seminar. Class members will be gathered at the Haines Hall Microcomputer Lab on the UCLA campus. Guests will be teleporting from a variety of remote locations. Guests will include: Amy Bruckman (MIT) Wade Roush (MIT) Pavel Curtis (Xerox PARC) Howard Rheingold (WELL) TOPICS The presentation of self in cyberspace Exchange and personal relationships in cyberspace Order, deviance, and power in virtual communities Designing more useful virtual communities Politics and cyberspace Personal reflections BACKGROUND The Sociology of Cyberspace, a seminar organized by Professor Peter Kollock of the UCLA Department of Sociology, has drawn together a diverse group of approximately 15 students. These include both graduates and undergraduates, from fields including sociology, biology, electrical engineering, library and information science, urban planning, English, art, and communications. Over the past quarter discussion has revolved around a variety of issues related to the characteristics, opportunities and disadvantages of human interaction via the computer in cyberspace. Topics have included: order and deviance, identity and anonymity, democracy and collective action, representation of gender, race, class, space and meaning in cyberspace, and politics and privacy. A copy of the class syllabus follows: SOCIOLOGY 285K/197H The Sociology of Cyberspace Spring 1993 Instructor: Peter Kollock TA: Marc Smith Office: Haines 295 Phone: (310) 825-3914 (O) (310) 455-1587 (H) Email: kollock@soc.sscnet.ucla.edu smithm@nicco.sscnet.ucla.edu Office Hours: (To be announced) READINGS: There are two required books that have been ordered for this course: _Cyberspace: First Steps_ edited by Michael Benedickt and, _The Whole Internet User's Guide & Catalog_ by Ed Krol. In addition, a set of readings has been put together. Readings are to be done prior to the week in which they are discussed. Schedule of Weekly Topics ------------------------- Introduction ------------ Week 1 - A Sampler of Cyberspace & Driver's Guide Interaction ----------- Week 2 - Who speaks to Whom, and How? Week 3 - Frames of Interaction Community and Collective Action ------------------------------- Week 4 - Order and Deviance Week 5 - Identity and Anonymity Week 6 - Electronic Community, Democracy and Collective Action Representation -------------- Week 7 - Representations of Self: Gender; Class; Race Week 8 - Representations of Space and Meaning Politics and the Future ----------------------- Week 9 - Power, Privacy, and Policy Week 10 - Flaming about the Future Reading Assignments ------------------- Introduction ------------ Week 1 - A Sampler of Cyberspace & Driver's Guide Benedikt, Michael. 1991. _Cyberspace: First Steps_, Cambridge, MA: MIT Press. Introduction, pp. 1-26 Krol, Ed. 1992. _The Whole Internet User's Guide & Catalog_. Sepastopol, CA: O'Reilly & Associates. Various. Karraker, Rodger, "Highways of the Mind", _Whole Earth Review_, Number 70. Pages 4-11 Wooley, Benjamin, 1992. "Virtuality", and "Cyberspace". _Virtual Worlds: A Journey in Hype and Hyperreality_. Cambridge, MA: Blackwell. Pages. 57-72 and 121-136. Interaction ----------- Week 2 - Who speaks to Whom, and How? Goffman, Erving. 1959. _Presentation of Self in Everyday Life_, New York: Anchor. Pages 1-16. Reid, Elizabeth. 1991. "Electropolis: Communication and Community on Internet Relay Chat". Electronic manuscript. (FTP: ftp.eff.org) Pages 1-33. Sproull, Lee and Sara Keisler, 1992. _Connections: New Ways of Working in the Networked Organization_. Cambridge, MA: MIT Press. Pages 37-78 Week 3 - Frames of Interaction Serpentelli, Jill, 1992. "Conversational Structure and Personality Correlates of Electronic Communication". Electronic manuscript. (FTP: parcftp.xerox.com) Pages 1-end. Curtis, Pavel. 1991. "Mudding: Social Phenomena in Text-Based Virtual Reality", Electronic manuscript. (FTP: parcftp.xerox.com) Pages 1-21. Rheingold, Howard. 1992. "A Slice of Life in My Virtual Community". Electronic manuscript. (FTP: ftp.eff.org) Pages 1-14. Technical and Social Notes on the Use of Usenet: A_Primer_on_How_to_Work_With_the_Usenet_Community Answers_to_Frequently_Asked_Questions_about_Usenet Emily_Postnews_Answers_Your_Questions_on_Netiquette Rules_for_posting_to_Usenet USENET_Software:_History_and_Sources What_is_Usenet? (To be found in your class account) MUD Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) File (To be found in your class account) Community and Collective Action ------------------------------- Week 4 - Order and Deviance Orbell, John, and Robyn Dawes. 1981. "Social Dilemmas." in _Progress in Applied Social Psychology (Vol.1)_, edited by G.M. Stephenson and J.M. Davis. New York: Wiley and Sons. Pages 37-65. Smith, Marc. 1992. "Voices from the Well: The Logic of the Virtual Commons". Electronic manuscript. (FTP: nicco.sscnet.ucla.edu) Pages 1-58. Morningstar, Chip, and F. Randall Farmer. 1991."The Lessons of Lucasfilm's Habitat", in _Cyberspace: First Steps_, edited by Michael Benedikt, Cambridge, MA: MIT Press. Pages 273-302. Deviance and Sanctions in Virtual Spaces (To be found in your class directory.) Week 5 - Identity and Anonymity: A Case Study Debate and Discussion on Anonymity and Accountability anon.penet.fi.goes.down! anon.rebutal anonymity.eff anonymous.posting news.admin.policy A_Cypherpunk's_Manifesto From_Crossbows_to_Cryptography The_Crypto_Anarchist_Manifesto (To be found in your class directory) Week 6 - Electronic Community, Democracy, and Collective Action Rheingold, Howard, et al. 1991. "Electronic Democracy", _Whole Earth Review, No. 71. Pages 4-42. McCullough, Michael F. 1991."Democratic Questions for the Computer Age", in _Computers in Human Services_, Vol. 8. Pages 9- 18. Varley, Pamela. 1991 "Electronic Democracy". _Technology Review_, November/December 1991. Pages 43-51. Representation -------------- Week 7 - Representations of Self: Gender; Class; Race Van Gelder, Lindsy, 1991. "The Strange Case of the Electronic Lover". _In Computerization and Controversy: Value Conflicts and Social Choices_, edited by Charles Dunlop and Rob Kling. Pages 364- 375. Stone, Allucquere Rosanne, 1991. "Will the Real Body Please Stand Up?: Boundary Stories about Virtual Cultures". In _Cyberspace: First Steps_, edited by Michael Benedikt, Cambridge, MA: MIT Press. Pages 81-118. Haraway, Donna, 1991. "A Cyborg Manifesto: Science, Technology, and Socialist-Feminism in the Late Twentieth Century". In _Simians, Cyborgs, and Women_, New York: Routledge. Pages 149- 182. Darnovsky, Marcy, 1992. "Overhauling the Meaning Machines: An Interview with Donna Haraway", Socialist Review. Pages 65-84. Week 8 - Representations of Space and Meaning Reveaux, Tony. 1993. "Virtual Reality Gets Real". _NewMedia_, Vol. 3. Pages 32-41. Robins, Kevin, 1992. "The Virtual Unconscious in Post- Photography", in _Science as Culture_. Pages 99-115. Poster, Mark. 1990. "Derrida and Electronic Writing: The Subject of the Computer". _In The Mode of Information: Poststructuralism and Social Context_. Chicago: University of Chicago Press. Pages 99-128. > > Harvey, David, 1989. "The Experience of Space and Time: Introduction", "Individual Spaces and Times in Social Life", "Time and Space as Sources of Social Power". In _The Condition of Postmodernity_, Cambridge, MA: Basil Blackwell. Pages 201-239. Politics and the Future ----------------------- Week 9 - Power, Privacy, and Policy Robins, Kevin and Frank Webster. 1990. "Athens without Slaves... Or Slaves without Athens?: The Neurosis of Technology". _Science as Culture_. Pages 7-53. Barlow, John Perry, 1990. "Crime and Puzzlement", Electronic manuscript. (FTP: ftp.eff.org) Pages 1-24. Barlow, John Perry, 1990. "Electronic Frontier Foundation", Electronic manuscript. (FTP: ftp.eff.org) Pages 1-4. Ross, Andrew. 1991. "Hacking Away at the Counterculture". In _Strange Weather: Culture, Science and Technology in the Age of Limits_. New York: Verso. Pages 75-100. Ê Poster, Mark. 1990. "Foucault and Databases: Participatory Surveillance". _In The Mode of Information: Poststructuralism and Social Context_. Chicago: University of Chicago Press. Pages 69-98. Clinton, Bill. 1993. "Address to the Employees of Silicon Graphics, Inc." Electronic manuscript. (Available from Clinton-news- Distribution@MIT.EDU) Pages 1-10. Week 10 - Flaming about the Future Gibson, William. 1984. Neuromancer. New York: Ace. All. (Other readings to be decided.) A Note Regarding the Transcript, and the Conventions of MediaMOO The following transcript was recorded using a MediaMOO TV camera, in real time. The tapes were then played back using MediaMOO TV editing machinery and their content captured to screen buffer and then downloaded to a Mac IICX for editing. Camera, tapes, editing equipment exist as programmed objects in MediaMOO No other corrections, additions, or deletions have been made from the transcript. The following is a typical dialog entry, or "speech act": [on monitor <11, 9 secs>] Guest says, "I think I am beig ignored" "Monitor" refers to the fact that the tape was played back on a MediaMOO TV edit monitor. The first number, 11 in this instance, refers to the "speech act." Each act or event entered into the flow of the meeting, triggered either by one of the participants or the camera operator, is designed by a number. Four tapes were used in recording this seminar. The first holds speech acts or entries 1-1000. When tapes are changed, the counter is automatically reset to 1. Therefore, entry 1 on tape 2 is or might be designed more accurately 1001. The timing following the counter number, 9 sec. in this case, refers to the elapsed time, real time, since the previous entry. This time indicates exactly the duration or pause one witnessed sitting at a terminal and viewing the seminar as it happened. A note about MediaMOO conventions. Participants or players may join MediaMOO by sending a request to the MOO giving their email address and specifying their research interest (MediaMOO is directed to the study of computer communication and virtual space). Traditionally, participants them adopt a pseudonym of whatever sort they desire. This can be their real name, provided it is not already used by another player, or any fanciful name of their choosing. It should be noted that players are not totally anonymous as they are on other MOOs. Any player may at any time perform the @whois command and receive via the computer the real name of the character. The following students in Sociology S285K were registered at MediaMOO and can be identified in the transcript by their player name, at left: Andre: Marc Smith Bushi: Lorraine Wallis destae19: Eric Rivera Dorothy: Irene Charny Elizabeth: Elizabeth Guterriez Person: Eric Magnuson PeterK: Peter Kollock Ralph124c41: Bruce Henstell Rez: Chris Long Those appearing as "guests" were, for the most part the non- registered members of the seminar. Other characters are various MOO players from elsewhere who happened by. Players in MediaMOO may "talk" or communicate in two ways. First, by typing " (quotation marks) and then a line of text, concluding with a carriage return. The computer takes this text and displays it with the character's name. So, for example, if I were at a terminal and typed: "Hi! What's new!? The computer would output to the screens of all players online at that moment the following: Ralph124c41 says "Hi! What's new!?" The second way of communicating is through the emote command. A player make an expression by typing a ":" (colon) and then a line describing a mood, action or reaction. For example, if I were to type on my terminal: : waves and smiles furiously. The computer would output: Ralph124c41 waves and smiles furiously. Finally, the operation of the MediaMOO camera produces three entries on the transcript record. First, when the camera operator moves the camera, that action is described: the camera pans left to right over Autumn Conference Room . . The pan of the camera will be followed by a description of the immediate setting. That setting is entered into the computer memory for that specific location and can be accessed by any player at any time via the look command. When the camera zooms in on a player, that is recorded as follows: . . .the camera zooms in on cdr. . . That will be followed by a description of the player as entered by the player into the file for his character: [on monitor <76, 1 secs>] You see an avid MOO programmer and Cognitive Science type guy. Currently developing the mediaMOO TV station. A final note on the mechanism of the Autumn Conference Room. The computer monitors the players present in the conference room, and only allows a set number to actually "talk" or "emote" at any one time. The number of speakers who can talk is set by the moderator, and it will be noticed that the number changed from time to time to control the flow of conversation. Players who wish to speak type "request" on their terminals. If the floor is open, the computer informs them they may proceed. The "have the floor" and may speak until they type "yield." If the set number of speakers has been reached, then the computer informs the requesting player that he/she has been entered into a queue. When sufficient speakers have yielded, the computer then informs the character he/she has the floor. Tuesday, June 8, 1993 3:20 pm PDT (10:20 hours GMT) [on monitor <1, 739579621 secs>] pause [on monitor <2, 9 secs>] Plaid_Guest materializes out of thin air. [on monitor <3, 1 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "ok, we're recording...." [on monitor <4, 0 secs>] Albert smiles for the camera. [on monitor <5, 5 secs>] Person says, "Hi Mom." [on monitor <6, 2 secs>] Guest jump in the air and try to get attention [on monitor <7, 4 secs>] Bushi fixes her hair so that she looks nice [on monitor <8, 3 secs>] Guest says, "ME ME!!" [on monitor <9, 4 secs>] destae19 says, "person seems to be having quite a good time" [on monitor <10, 12 secs>] Person says, "Number 1!" [on monitor <11, 9 secs>] Guest says, "I think I am beig ignored" [on monitor <12, 3 secs>] Rez tries to calm Person down, but fails miserably [on monitor <13, 1 secs>] . . . the camera pans left to right over Autumn Conference Room . . . [on monitor <14, 0 secs>] A mellow, comfortable room with lots of sofas and couches. Outside, the trees along Memorial Drive are a luminous golden color, and whitecaps are showing on the windswept Charles River Basin. The faint odour of burning leaves drifts in through an open window. [on monitor <15, 1 secs>] [on monitor <16, 1 secs>] Protagoras returns, mission accomplished. [on monitor <17, 1 secs>] Bushi pats Guest on the back [on monitor <18, 3 secs>] Person [to destae19]: Can it, pal. [on monitor <19, 19 secs>] Pisthetairos says, "Hi guest" [on monitor <20, 0 secs>] Azure_Guest disappears suddenly for parts unknown. [on monitor <21, 1 secs>] Guest says, "does anyone want"hi" [on monitor <22, 0 secs>] . . .the camera zooms in on PeterK. . . [on monitor <23, 3 secs>] You see a player who should type '@describe me as ...'. [on monitor <24, 1 secs>] Rez says, "Is everyone here? Shall we do introductions?" [on monitor <25, 9 secs>] Guest says, "hi" [on monitor <26, 8 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "yo peter wave..." [on monitor <27, 1 secs>] Bushi says, "lets do introductions!" [on monitor <28, 2 secs>] Guest says, "yes, let's do intros" [on monitor <29, 0 secs>] . . .the camera zooms in on Andre. . . [on monitor <30, 7 secs>] A tall thin bearded man with longish brown hair with hints of red. He is dressed like a moderator. [on monitor <31, 0 secs>] Maximum number of speakers set to 6 [on monitor <32, 10 secs>] Guest says, "HI, ME ME!!" [on monitor <33, 1 secs>] Andre says, "Hello everyone, shall we start?" [on monitor <34, 0 secs>] . . .the camera zooms in on Guest. . . [on monitor <35, 2 secs>] {list} [on monitor <36, 5 secs>] Pisthetairos [to all]: "you can call me pisth for short [on monitor <37, 1 secs>] Guest says, "Do you have any riske' tapes?" [on monitor <38, 0 secs>] Bushi says, "yse lets start" [on monitor <39, 2 secs>] Person thinks Guest is going to get chastized soon. [on monitor <40, 3 secs>] PeterK smiles [on monitor <41, 6 secs>] Maximum number of speakers set to 18 [on monitor <42, 9 secs>] PeterK says, "Yes, lets start.."" [on monitor <43, 0 secs>] . . . the camera pans left to right over Autumn Conference Room . . . [on monitor <44, 0 secs>] A mellow, comfortable room with lots of sofas and couches. Outside, the trees along Memorial Drive are a luminous golden color, and whitecaps are showing on the windswept Charles River Basin. The faint odour of burning leaves drifts in through an open window. [on monitor <45, 0 secs>] [on monitor <46, 11 secs>] Person says, "Hey, I did." [on monitor <47, 5 secs>] Pavel materializes out of thin air. [on monitor <48, 5 secs>] Andre says, "Ok, to start I have opened the floor widely." [on monitor <49, 11 secs>] Scamper says, "oooo" [on monitor <50, 2 secs>] Person thinks he better start behaving himself. [on monitor <51, 37 secs>] Andre says, "I'm going to drop it down to a more cozy 6 speakers in a minute." [on monitor <52, 1 secs>] Guest says, "what does limiting speakers do?" [on monitor <53, 1 secs>] PeterK [to Pavel]: Thanks for coming by [on monitor <54, 1 secs>] Andre says, "Would everyone like to do a cycle or requests and yeilds?" [on monitor <55, 7 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "are we ready to start?" [on monitor <56, 4 secs>] Guest says, "yes" [on monitor <57, 6 secs>] Andre says, "I'm told that we need to do that." [on monitor <58, 3 secs>] Guest says, "oh" [on monitor <59, 6 secs>] Jay materializes out of thin air. [on monitor <60, 0 secs>] Protagoras says, "I vote for requests & yields" [on monitor <61, 9 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "COULD EVERYBODY STOP TALKING FOR A SEC PLEASE" [on monitor <62, 9 secs>] Andre says, "So, if everyone will do a req" [on monitor <63, 1 secs>] Bushi says, "how do you do a request" [on monitor <64, 1 secs>] Andre says, "And then a yeild." [on monitor <65, 4 secs>] Guest says, "I keep getting a nice try..." [on monitor <66, 0 secs>] cdr has arrived. [on monitor <67, 2 secs>] Scamper says, "what's with the shouting?" [on monitor <68, 5 secs>] Elizabeth says, "Hi everyone." [on monitor <69, 6 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "just want to astart the taping" [on monitor <70, 2 secs>] cdr drops MMTV Camera. [on monitor <71, 13 secs>] PeterK [to cdr]: Hello! [on monitor <72, 1 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "hey cdr you made it!" [on monitor <73, 2 secs>] Andre [to Ralph124c41]: I suggest you go ahead! [on monitor <74, 4 secs>] Guest says, "i type req, and get nice try but other people want to speak too" [on monitor <75, 0 secs>] . . .the camera zooms in on cdr. . . [on monitor <76, 1 secs>] You see an avid MOO programmer and Cognitive Science type guy. Currently developing the mediaMOO TV station. [on monitor <77, 7 secs>] Guest says, "what means?" [on monitor <78, 7 secs>] Scamper says, "maybe that's a hint!" [on monitor <79, 4 secs>] Andre [to Guest]: That means that there is more than 18 people in here. [on monitor <80, 9 secs>] Maximum number of speakers set to 22 [on monitor <81, 0 secs>] Albert [to Guest]: you are already a speaker. [on monitor <82, 0 secs>] cdr unlocks the MMTV Camera. [on monitor <83, 5 secs>] Andre [to Guest]: try that again [on monitor <84, 1 secs>] Guest says, "oh" [on monitor <85, 0 secs>] cdr turns on the MMTV Camera. [on monitor <86, 3 secs>] AIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!! FEEDBACK LOOP! TURN OFF TV! [on monitor <87, 0 secs>] Protagoras 22 speakers=chaos [on monitor <88, 8 secs>] AIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!! FEEDBACK LOOP! TURN OFF TV! [on monitor <89, 0 secs>] Guest says, "OOO TRIP OUT!!!" [on monitor <90, 2 secs>] AIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!! FEEDBACK LOOP! TURN OFF TV! [on monitor <91, 0 secs>] cdr turns off MMTV Camera. [on monitor <92, 6 secs>] AIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!! FEEDBACK LOOP! TURN OFF TV! [on monitor <93, 10 secs>] Guest says, "CRAZY MAN" [on monitor <94, 3 secs>] Andre [on monitor <95, 2 secs>] Person plugs his ears. [on monitor <96, 0 secs>] Andre rubs his ears [on monitor <97, 6 secs>] Ralph124c41 winces [on monitor <98, 4 secs>] Guest smile [on monitor <99, 0 secs>] Scamper says, "finally, some music" [on monitor <100, 3 secs>] Bushi groves to the new sound list1 101-200 I don't understand that. Try this instead: list1 101-200 to list1 101 to 200 Ralph124c41 lists a section of rtape1000. [on monitor <101, 2 secs>] Protagoras goes with it. [on monitor <102, 1 secs>] Person is lucky he brught his earplugs. [on monitor <103, 8 secs>] Maximum number of speakers set to 6 [on monitor <104, 1 secs>] cdr turns off RalphTV. [on monitor <105, 7 secs>] Guest let's play disco songs [on monitor <106, 4 secs>] Andre clears throat [on monitor <107, 0 secs>] Menachem materializes out of thin air. [on monitor <108, 1 secs>] Protagoras registers distatste [on monitor <109, 1 secs>] cdr turns on the MMTV Camera. [on monitor <110, 5 secs>] Andre looks around room [on monitor <111, 17 secs>] Andre smiles [on monitor <112, 1 secs>] cdr goes out. [on monitor <113, 2 secs>] Andre says, "Welcome, everyone, to the final meeting of s285k" [on monitor <114, 18 secs>] Guest does flips [on monitor <115, 0 secs>] Andre says, "For those of you outside of UCLA, that's the "Sociology of Cyberspace"" [on monitor <116, 1 secs>] Bushi claps and whistles [on monitor <117, 2 secs>] Person acts solemn. [on monitor <118, 0 secs>] . . .the camera zooms in on Andre. . . [on monitor <119, 12 secs>] A tall thin bearded man with longish brown hair with hints of red. He is dressed like a moderator. [on monitor <120, 7 secs>] Guest jumps in front of andre [on monitor <121, 7 secs>] Ralph124c41 thinks person is never solumn [on monitor <122, 12 secs>] Andre says, "We have a number of people with us today who are special additions to our class" [on monitor <123, 3 secs>] cdr has arrived. [on monitor <124, 2 secs>] Andre says, "Here through the magic of virtual interaction." [on monitor <125, 2 secs>] Scamper says, "we always have "special additions" [on monitor <126, 0 secs>] Guest says, "let's listen to andre, shut up all" [on monitor <127, 3 secs>] Person thinks the serious, academic atmosphere is being somewhat disrupted. [on monitor <128, 6 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "hey, do i get to do my start?" [on monitor <129, 6 secs>] Guest says, "SHUT UP" [on monitor <130, 1 secs>] cdr picks up RalphTV. [on monitor <131, 3 secs>] Guest says, "andre..." [on monitor <132, 1 secs>] cdr goes out. [on monitor <133, 8 secs>] Andre says, "I would like to start with a few words from Ralph, our camnera person" [on monitor <134, 11 secs>] Andre says, "And the organizer of this event." [on monitor <135, 6 secs>] Scamper says, "drumroll please" [on monitor <136, 5 secs>] Guest says, "don't yield me" [on monitor <137, 8 secs>] Guest says, "RUN!" [on monitor <138, 7 secs>] Jave materializes out of thin air. [on monitor <139, 4 secs>] Guest says, "ok" [on monitor <140, 9 secs>] Person says, "Yield, dogs!" [on monitor <141, 7 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "somebody tell the consultant to go home so we can drink" [on monitor <142, 1 secs>] Maximum number of speakers set to 3 [on monitor <143, 4 secs>] Scamper says, "is there a bumrush command?" [on monitor <144, 13 secs>] destae19 says, "i concur" [on monitor <145, 0 secs>] Person says, "Yield to the power!" [on monitor <146, 16 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "its hot in here" [on monitor <147, 4 secs>] Person says, "Test 123" [on monitor <148, 2 secs>] Guest says, "hi, lets get started" [on monitor <149, 9 secs>] destae19 says, "hello" [on monitor <150, 3 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "hey, i got a great idea. since we're all in calif let's take off our clothes!" [on monitor <151, 7 secs>] destae19 says, "oh well andre" [on monitor <152, 1 secs>] Maximum number of speakers set to 1 [on monitor <153, 11 secs>] destae19 says, "fascist" [on monitor <154, 9 secs>] Scamper says, "i'm not into the nudist thing" [on monitor <155, 1 secs>] Ralph124c41 sticks out his tongue [on monitor <156, 1 secs>] Andre says, "I'm waiting for a yield " [on monitor <157, 21 secs>] Guest says, "EVERYONE!" [on monitor <158, 41 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "i'm going to do my start up and then yield" [on monitor <159, 5 secs>] Andre says, "Ok, thank you all." [on monitor <160, 2 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "okay we're ready to roll" [on monitor <161, 2 secs>] Andre says, "We're ready to go now." [on monitor <162, 0 secs>] . . . the camera pans left to right over Autumn Conference Room . . . [on monitor <163, 0 secs>] A mellow, comfortable room with lots of sofas and couches. Outside, the trees along Memorial Drive are a luminous golden color, and whitecaps are showing on the windswept Charles River Basin. The faint odour of burning leaves drifts in through an open window. [on monitor <164, 20 secs>] [on monitor <165, 0 secs>] Andre says, "I'd like to introduce Ralph124c41" [on monitor <166, 54 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "test, test. okay?" [on monitor <167, 8 secs>] Menachem disappears suddenly for parts unknown. [on monitor <168, 2 secs>] Guilt materializes out of thin air. [on monitor <169, 2 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "Good afternoon. Or good eveneing depending on where in cyberspace you are. My name is Ralph124c41 and I'm your correspondent from MediaMOO TV for this seminar. This class is the last on the quarter in sociology 285k at ucla" [on monitor <170, 6 secs>] Locke materializes out of thin air. [on monitor <171, 25 secs>] Azure_Guest materializes out of thin air. [on monitor <172, 16 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "join us now for a seminar from, and about, cyperspace. I'm now going to" [on monitor <173, 6 secs>] Jay has disconnected. [on monitor <174, 5 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "turn it over to your moderator, the well-known Well scholar, Marc Smith...." [on monitor <175, 8 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "Marc.....?" [on monitor <176, 2 secs>] Andre says, ":stands up" [on monitor <177, 2 secs>] Andre smiles [on monitor <178, 2 secs>] Andre says, "Hello folks." [on monitor <179, 0 secs>] . . .the camera zooms in on Andre. . . [on monitor <180, 19 secs>] A tall thin bearded man with longish brown hair with hints of red. He is dressed like a moderator. [on monitor <181, 9 secs>] Andre says, "We're still trying to get the hang of the interface here, so please be patient." [on monitor <182, 28 secs>] Andre says, "I'm sure we'll figure it all out." [on monitor <183, 1 secs>] Andre says, "The first thing I'd like to do is invite our guests to introduce themselves and say a few words" [on monitor <184, 0 secs>] . . .the camera zooms in on Bushi. . . [on monitor <185, 13 secs>] You see a player who should type '@describe me as ...'. [on monitor <186, 10 secs>] Andre says, "About their work." [on monitor <187, 14 secs>] Maximum number of speakers set to 3 [on monitor <188, 6 secs>] Andre says, "If anyone has a comment to add, type req" [on monitor <189, 21 secs>] Andre says, "to "request" a spot" [on monitor <190, 22 secs>] Andre says, "You may also continue to use "whisper" to speak one-on-one with anyone else in the room." [on monitor <191, 27 secs>] Andre says, "After you have said your piece, please remember to use "yield" to leave room for others." [on monitor <192, 8 secs>] Andre says, "First, I'd like to turn to the Founder of MediaMoo, Amy Bruckman." [on monitor <193, 0 secs>] . . .the camera zooms in on Amy. . . [on monitor <194, 3 secs>] Amy is 5'8 with shoulder-length wavy brown hair, and mischievous grin which seems to say "Can you believe I get paid to do this?" [on monitor <195, 15 secs>] Andre says, "I had the pleasure of meeting Amy IRL a few weeks ago" [on monitor <196, 12 secs>] Andre says, "And was very impressed with her and the work she is doing." [on monitor <197, 25 secs>] Andre says, "Amy?" [on monitor <198, 21 secs>] Amy says, "Welcome to MediaMOO!" [on monitor <199, 13 secs>] Amy says, "I'm a graduate student at the Media Lab at MIT" [on monitor <200, 4 secs>] cdr materializes out of thin air. list1 201 to 300 Ralph124c41 lists a section of rtape1000. [on monitor <201, 4 secs>] Amy says, "and for my dissertation research I'm working on a MUD for kids" [on monitor <202, 15 secs>] The housekeeper arrives to cart Jay off to bed. [on monitor <203, 9 secs>] Amy says, "to provide an authentic context for reading, writing, and programming" [on monitor <204, 20 secs>] Locke has disconnected. [on monitor <205, 13 secs>] Amy says, "and I'd like to test the hypothesis that this technology can help girls to be more comfortable with computers" [on monitor <206, 9 secs>] Andre smiles [on monitor <207, 44 secs>] Amy says, "I started MediaMOO this fall almost as a warm up project" [on monitor <208, 8 secs>] Bacall materializes out of thin air. [on monitor <209, 9 secs>] Amy says, "I figured if I could do this with adults, then working with kids would be the next step" [on monitor <210, 1 secs>] Amy says, "but MediaMOO has become interesting in its own right" [on monitor <211, 1 secs>] Andre says, "I am sure that there will be a lot of questions for you today" [on monitor <212, 22 secs>] Guilt disappears suddenly for parts unknown. [on monitor <213, 16 secs>] Amy says, "I'm particularly interested in the application of contstructionist principles-- learning by doing" [on monitor <214, 8 secs>] Amy says, "it's important to me that everyone on MediaMOO has the right to extend the virtual world" [on monitor <215, 13 secs>] Andre says, "This MOO, of course, is based on a program written by another one of our guests" [on monitor <216, 11 secs>] Amy sits down [on monitor <217, 13 secs>] Andre says, "The MOO programming language was written by Pavel Curtis." [on monitor <218, 8 secs>] Pavel has been busily typing: "My name is Pavel Curtis in RL, or Haakon or Lambda on LambdaMOO. I am a computer science researcher at the Xerox Palo Alto Research Center and the primary author of the LambdaMOO server code. I study the implementation, applications, and implications of what we call `social virtual realities', of which MUDs are one example. Most recently, I've been doing research on the application of MUD-like systems (aka Social Virtual Realities) to non-recreational settings, including building Astro-VR, an enhanced MUD for use entirely by the professional astronomy community, and Jupiter, a MUD with live audio and video for use entirely within my research center." [on monitor <219, 22 secs>] Pavel sits down. [on monitor <220, 28 secs>] Rez has disconnected. [on monitor <221, 6 secs>] cdr bops on out. . . [on monitor <222, 5 secs>] Andre nods [on monitor <223, 4 secs>] Andre and finishes reading [on monitor <224, 7 secs>] Andre says, "Thanks Pavel." [on monitor <225, 0 secs>] . . . the camera pans left to right over Autumn Conference Room . . . [on monitor <226, 0 secs>] A mellow, comfortable room with lots of sofas and couches. Outside, the trees along Memorial Drive are a luminous golden color, and whitecaps are showing on the windswept Charles River Basin. The faint odour of burning leaves drifts in through an open window. [on monitor <227, 4 secs>] [on monitor <228, 3 secs>] Andre says, "We could all learn a bit about MOO use from Pavel." [on monitor <229, 7 secs>] Andre smiles [on monitor <230, 0 secs>] . . .the camera zooms in on Pavel. . . [on monitor <231, 0 secs>] A fuddlebrained little fellow who's glad his wife and friends are so tolerant. [on monitor <232, 8 secs>] Wade is a graduate student in the Program in Science, Technology, and Society at MIT. He's in the middle of writing a dissertation on the social and political meaning of technological disasters. [on monitor <233, 5 secs>] Andre says, "I belive we also have Wade Roush with us." [on monitor <234, 0 secs>] . . .the camera zooms in on Wade. . . [on monitor <235, 5 secs>] A tall, amiable-looking fellow in his mid- twenties, with black hair and eyes so dark-brown you can hardly see his pupils. An aura of guilt hangs about him because he should be working on his PhD thesis instead of goofing around here. [on monitor <236, 6 secs>] The housekeeper arrives to cart Locke off to bed. [on monitor <237, 8 secs>] Andre says, "Wade is the architect of the building we are currently in, the STS center" [on monitor <238, 0 secs>] Rez has connected. [on monitor <239, 3 secs>] Andre turns to Wade [on monitor <240, 24 secs>] Wade says, "I got interested in MUDs when I met Amy. She was taking an STS course, and we got to talking about her work..." [on monitor <241, 6 secs>] Bacall goes out. [on monitor <242, 8 secs>] Wade says, "Early this year it occurred to me that the idea behind MediaMOO, to use MUDs to enhance professional work..." [on monitor <243, 7 secs>] Andre says, "Wade could you define STS for us?" [on monitor <244, 12 secs>] Wade says, "might also be worth testing among humanities scholars." [on monitor <245, 8 secs>] Wade says, "STS has two meanings!" [on monitor <246, 12 secs>] Wade says, "In the case of this building, it means Science and Technology Studies." [on monitor <247, 17 secs>] Wade says, "In the case of my graduate program, it's Science, Technology, and Society." [on monitor <248, 3 secs>] Andre says, ""I see." [on monitor <249, 21 secs>] Wade says, "I'm quite pleased with the way things have been going here at the Virtual STS Centre so far." [on monitor <250, 12 secs>] Wade says, "We've attracted lots of folks to MediaMOO who might never have gotten involved in cyberspace otherwise." [on monitor <251, 28 secs>] Andre says, "You have hosted a number of events?" [on monitor <252, 12 secs>] Wade says, "Yes, we had a big opening celebration, and have since had forums on the place of cyberspace in the humanities and similar topics..." [on monitor <253, 18 secs>] Wade says, "There is also a regular virtual journal club." [on monitor <254, 1 secs>] Wade says, "And folks from STS fields are invited to build their own offices in this building." [on monitor <255, 11 secs>] Maximum number of speakers set to 4 [on monitor <256, 2 secs>] Guest says, "hi wade, nice to meet you" [on monitor <257, 6 secs>] Wade's finished speaking, he guesses. [on monitor <258, 9 secs>] Guest says, "question?" [on monitor <259, 1 secs>] Wade says, "Ask away?" [on monitor <260, 4 secs>] Andre says, "Go ahead guest" [on monitor <261, 5 secs>] Mephisto materializes out of thin air. [on monitor <262, 11 secs>] Guest says, ""what type of" [on monitor <263, 13 secs>] Guest says, "hi, my name is Fal Sarkear, in Urban Planning at UCLA" [on monitor <264, 1 secs>] Wade says, "Glad to meet you." [on monitor <265, 0 secs>] . . .the camera zooms in on Guest. . . [on monitor <266, 1 secs>] {list} [on monitor <267, 22 secs>] Guest says, "I am interest in science, tech, and culture in PLanning processes" [on monitor <268, 12 secs>] Guest says, "at STS, what type of things do different people do? Interdisciplines?" [on monitor <269, 14 secs>] Mephisto goes home. [on monitor <270, 15 secs>] Wade says, "STS is composed of historians, sociologists, and anthropologists..." [on monitor <271, 12 secs>] tina materializes out of thin air. [on monitor <272, 18 secs>] Wade says, "Most people here work on topics in the history and sociology of twentieth-century science and technology." [on monitor <273, 2 secs>] Andre says, "speakers" [on monitor <274, 1 secs>] Guest says, "how is Media Moo publicized to the humanities, say..." [on monitor <275, 14 secs>] Wade says, "Sorry to be so vague, but the program is very interdisciplinary and people are working on a wide range of topics." [on monitor <276, 17 secs>] Guest says, "GReat, sounds more interesting" [on monitor <277, 4 secs>] Wade says, "We posted announcements on several electronic bulletin boards used by historians and social scientists in STS fields." [on monitor <278, 8 secs>] PeterK says, "could I ask a question, Wade?" [on monitor <279, 15 secs>] Wade says, "Please do, PeterK." [on monitor <280, 10 secs>] Protagoras says, "[to Amy] What aspects of the MOO do you believe enhances its utility for women? Its relational dimension?" [on monitor <281, 17 secs>] PeterK says, "I know you've talked about the 'if you build it they will come.." view" [on monitor <282, 3 secs>] Wade says, "Yes?" [on monitor <283, 27 secs>] PeterK says, "How successful has the sts centre been up to now"" [on monitor <284, 1 secs>] Wade says, "It's a hard question to answer...it certainly hasn't developed the way I envisioned, but that doesn't mean it hasn't been successful..." [on monitor <285, 17 secs>] PeterK looks to Wade and smiles [on monitor <286, 17 secs>] Andre says, "May I pose a question?" [on monitor <287, 9 secs>] Wade says, "I think the measure of success will be whether the STS Centre attracts lots of interesting folks who learn from each other, especially by building their own virtual places and objects." [on monitor <288, 18 secs>] Wade says, "And that is definitely starting to happen." [on monitor <289, 5 secs>] Andre says, "The kinds of social organizations we have so far in virtual spaces is certainly embryonic" [on monitor <290, 3 secs>] Wade has written a paper on this subject, available via ftp from media.mit.edu. [on monitor <291, 22 secs>] Andre says, "Ooops, go ahead Amy" [on monitor <292, 10 secs>] Amy [to protagorus]: that's an interesting question [on monitor <293, 8 secs>] Amy says, "one that I'm still exploring" [on monitor <294, 1 secs>] Amy says, "I believe that the key word is context" [on monitor <295, 18 secs>] Wade's paper is in media.mit.edu, directory /pub/MediaMOO/Papers, filename STS-Centre. [on monitor <296, 5 secs>] Protagoras says, "Please elaborate on "context."" [on monitor <297, 14 secs>] Amy says, "the socially situated nature of reading, writing and programming may be more appealing to women" [on monitor <298, 1 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "wade: what is it about the humanities, organically, or in social context, that makes you think its practioners would be interested in a MOO?" [on monitor <299, 35 secs>] Amy says, "but that's a hypothesis that I intend to test, not just assume" [on monitor <300, 5 secs>] Amy says, "the metaphorical relationship of the virtual and real world provides a kind of connectedness to human concerns" list1 301 to 400 Ralph124c41 lists a section of rtape1000. [on monitor <301, 30 secs>] Protagoras says, "Is there a rl analogue?" [on monitor <302, 1 secs>] Protagoras says, "I see we're on the same wavelength (literally)" [on monitor <303, 4 secs>] Andre says, "My understanding is that MOOs will become the new hallway, tearoom, lounge, etc of academe" [on monitor <304, 17 secs>] Protagoras smiles [on monitor <305, 4 secs>] Amy smiles to protagoras [on monitor <306, 5 secs>] Andre says, "Would that be a proper characterizatiuon" [on monitor <307, 8 secs>] Andre asks [on monitor <308, 22 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "i just want to say i hope the eastern contingent is having as much funny boozing it up as this local group." [on monitor <309, 9 secs>] Guest says, "amy, what do you mean by a metaphorical relationship?" [on monitor <310, 15 secs>] Amy laughs. "We're clearly missing some of the fun" [on monitor <311, 4 secs>] Andre [to raplh]: I agree -- there will be a number of sticky keyboards in hianes! [on monitor <312, 11 secs>] Amy says, "well guest, for example, one project I can imagine is to start by creating a virtual dog" [on monitor <313, 2 secs>] Andre says, "Go on" [on monitor <314, 22 secs>] Amy says, "which you can do just by making something which inherits from generic dog" [on monitor <315, 1 secs>] Plaid_Guest disappears suddenly for parts unknown. [on monitor <316, 18 secs>] Amy says, "in one simple command, you have something which wags its tail when you pet it and follows you around" [on monitor <317, 3 secs>] Guest says, "does it have its own sense of choice or cognition?" [on monitor <318, 8 secs>] Maximum number of speakers set to 5 [on monitor <319, 44 secs>] Amy says, "then the child might decide to look at the code, realize it's not hard to modify, and possibly teach it to guard your room" [on monitor <320, 2 secs>] The_Orb materializes out of thin air. [on monitor <321, 3 secs>] Andre says, "I'd like to pose a question." [on monitor <322, 15 secs>] Guest says, "what type of philosphical questions, and names of thinkers are you looking at?" [on monitor <323, 10 secs>] Andre says, "I was reading a book called the "Cult of Information"" [on monitor <324, 12 secs>] Andre says, "By a fella named Rozack" [on monitor <325, 3 secs>] Protagoras says, "Outstanding book!" [on monitor <326, 3 secs>] Andre says, "He's very critical of information technology" [on monitor <327, 6 secs>] Green_Guest has arrived. [on monitor <328, 4 secs>] Wade says, "Ralph asked what it is about the humanities, organically, or in social context, that makes me think its practioners would be interested in a MOO. Should I take a crack at that one now?" [on monitor <329, 1 secs>] Gavin materializes out of thin air. [on monitor <330, 18 secs>] Andre says, "And especially of there use in education." [on monitor <331, 12 secs>] Andre [to Wade]: I think we might as well multithread. [on monitor <332, 9 secs>] Protagoras says, "Right, he's posed the concept of Master Ideas and found infocult wanting." [on monitor <333, 6 secs>] The_Orb goes home. [on monitor <334, 14 secs>] tina disappears suddenly for parts unknown. [on monitor <335, 10 secs>] Andre [to Amy]: In that book he suggests that computers do not rteach better than humans. [on monitor <336, 2 secs>] Wade says, "I think that most humanities folks are *not* going to get involved with MOOs unless they have a prior interesting in computing, as indicated by whether they use e- mail or BBS..." [on monitor <337, 14 secs>] Andre says, "I do not necessarily agree, but could you " [on monitor <338, 3 secs>] Amy [to Andre]: absolutely! I do not believe in computers as a substitue for teachers [on monitor <339, 1 secs>] Andre says, "perhaps respond to such a charge?" [on monitor <340, 21 secs>] St_Francis materializes out of thin air. [on monitor <341, 5 secs>] Amy [to Andre]: but a good teacher and a good computer system can accomplish some amazing things together [on monitor <342, 1 secs>] Jade_Guest materializes out of thin air. [on monitor <343, 3 secs>] Wade says, "So we are starting with a group that's already open to some of the informality and wierdness that goes on in a MOO..." [on monitor <344, 5 secs>] Amy says, "I don't believe in computer tutoring" [on monitor <345, 15 secs>] Amy says, "or distance learning" [on monitor <346, 16 secs>] Wade says, "But there are still lots of humanities people who find this whole medium disturbing, or worse, a waste of time." [on monitor <347, 11 secs>] Andre says, "So a MOO does not replace a teacher" [on monitor <348, 5 secs>] Jay materializes out of thin air. [on monitor <349, 1 secs>] Andre says, "Just provides a new context" [on monitor <350, 2 secs>] Amy [to Andre]: the computer is not a substitute for anything [on monitor <351, 15 secs>] Andre aasks [on monitor <352, 1 secs>] Amy [to Andre]: it's a new medium of expression [on monitor <353, 17 secs>] Protagoras says, "The power's in the interface, not in separate realms." [on monitor <354, 3 secs>] Andre [to Wade]: What kinds of criticisms of MOOs are you hearing? [on monitor <355, 15 secs>] Amy [to Andre]: and I believe in using it to empower people to construct personally meaningful artifacts [on monitor <356, 8 secs>] Maximum number of speakers set to 6 [on monitor <357, 4 secs>] Amy [to Andre]: what is wonderful about this place is that the participants built it! [on monitor <358, 4 secs>] Andre [to Wade]: Jump in! [on monitor <359, 21 secs>] Person [to Amy]: But if it's a new medium of expression, why can't distance learning work,? [on monitor <360, 3 secs>] Amy [to Person]: distance learning may be a sad necessity in the face of real economic constraints [on monitor <361, 10 secs>] Wade says, "People at MIT have told me that I'm endangering my reputation as an academic by having anything to do with virtual reality." [on monitor <362, 7 secs>] Scamper [to Amy]: "why did you decide on virtual dog, rather than virtual monster, virtual art, or some other form of interactive media more interesting than dog? [on monitor <363, 3 secs>] Wade says, "Others are just indifferent or see this as a game...but if they are so uptight then who needs them?" [on monitor <364, 7 secs>] Amy [to but]: the interpersonal relationshiop betweeen student and teacher is a key part of the learning process and should not be taken for granted [on monitor <365, 10 secs>] Andre [to Wade]: what is the risk of getting close to VR? [on monitor <366, 31 secs>] Person says, "Good point, Wade." [on monitor <367, 14 secs>] Amy [to Scamper]: that's just an example. one that makes me happy. I'm allergic to fur and have always wanted a dog! but what is most important is that people can use this medium to construct what is meaningful to them! [on monitor <368, 26 secs>] Wade [to Andre]: I think it's perceived as vapourware, more hype than substance. Not many people yet understand the potential of VR as an educational or professional medium. And who can blame them, based on the way VR gets represented on the TV news and in the movies! [on monitor <369, 2 secs>] Andre says, "Hmm. So, there is resistance to the technology." [on monitor <370, 8 secs>] Person says, "Yes, I'm certainly not suggesting a replacement of teachers!" [on monitor <371, 14 secs>] Amy [to Wade]: to cross conversations, I believe this medium challenges the boundaries between work and play [on monitor <372, 3 secs>] Scamper [to Amy]: "but it seems that the meaning of the creators, becomes applied to the meaning of the learner, have you thought of the repercussions of your own meaning, and what you have put into the system? [on monitor <373, 1 secs>] Person says, "But a complement to a person's already occurring education experience." [on monitor <374, 1 secs>] Andre [to amy&wade]: You both share a very positive view of this technology [on monitor <375, 23 secs>] Wade [to Andre]: Not 'resistance' exactly -- I don't think it's political. It's more in the way of skepticism. [on monitor <376, 11 secs>] Wade is optimistic, but still cautious. [on monitor <377, 17 secs>] Andre [to Pavel]: Everyone wants to yeild to let you in. [on monitor <378, 6 secs>] Guest says, "I yield" [on monitor <379, 2 secs>] Scamper [to Pavel]: "how does it feel to be a star? [on monitor <380, 15 secs>] Laughing_Star materializes out of thin air. [on monitor <381, 15 secs>] Guilt materializes out of thin air. [on monitor <382, 4 secs>] Andre [to Pavel]: We'd like to ask you about the developments at Xerox [on monitor <383, 22 secs>] Beth says, "Hi, my name is Krista Bessinger, in cultural anthropology at Smith College... and I have a question for Wade..." [on monitor <384, 3 secs>] Amy [to Scamper]: absolutely correct. there is no neutral meaning. my biases are built into the system design. I hope to build in my values-- of pluralism, for example. and values that will encourage girls to be excited about computers. Those are absolutely value judgements [on monitor <385, 7 secs>] Jave goes home. [on monitor <386, 8 secs>] Andre [to Pavel]: You are woirking [on monitor <387, 1 secs>] St_Francis has disconnected. [on monitor <388, 8 secs>] Beth says, "I am somewhat familiar with the STS program at MIT and so I am also aware that Michael Fisher was recently hired...." [on monitor <389, 16 secs>] Andre [to Pavel]: on a wider bandwidth versions of MOOs. [on monitor <390, 1 secs>] Victoria materializes out of thin air. [on monitor <391, 2 secs>] Maximum number of speakers set to 7 [on monitor <392, 6 secs>] Beth says, "As far as I know, he had not published much (or anything?) pertaining directly to STS..." [on monitor <393, 9 secs>] Andre [to Pavel]: try now [on monitor <394, 8 secs>] Beth says, "And I was wondering, since he had joined the faculty, if you have any better sense of where his interests lie..." [on monitor <395, 5 secs>] Pavel [to Andre]: What did you want to know? [on monitor <396, 22 secs>] Beth says, "and what kinds of research he might be interested in pursuing..." [on monitor <397, 3 secs>] Beth says, "where do you see him fitting into the program?" [on monitor <398, 7 secs>] Andre [to Pavel]: You are working on Moos with much wider bandwidths - video, audio, etc. [on monitor <399, 1 secs>] Pavel nods. [on monitor <400, 7 secs>] Wade [to Beth]: Basically, Fischer was interested in changing fields of study since his original subject, Iran, is now very difficult to study... list1 401 to 500 Ralph124c41 lists a section of rtape1000. [on monitor <401, 27 secs>] Andre [to Pavel]: Do you see any differences devekloping? [on monitor <402, 8 secs>] Scamper says, "are there any artists on the staff of Media Moo, or is it all scientists, do you think that all of this is technology vs art, a praxis of the two, or what?" [on monitor <403, 7 secs>] Andre [to Pavel]: Perhaps you could describe the Jupiter Project? [on monitor <404, 6 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "pavel: describe the moo you're setting up at xerox" [on monitor <405, 7 secs>] Pavel says, "It's too early yet to say very much about the affects of audio and video on MUDs, since we've only done small, short experiments so far. Let me describe the model, first..." [on monitor <406, 2 secs>] Green_Guest has disconnected. [on monitor <407, 15 secs>] Wade [to Beth]: ...The STS program was looking to establish a strong base in anthropology, and Fischer will definitely help us do that. You're right that he has no real experience in STS fields but he has expressed an interest in getting up to speed. [on monitor <408, 16 secs>] Wade [to Beth]: We can talk more about this privately if you like. [on monitor <409, 0 secs>] tina materializes out of thin air. [on monitor <410, 3 secs>] Beth says, "thanks..." [on monitor <411, 35 secs>] Pavel says, "In the Jupiter project, we're building an enhanced MUD for use entirely by the people working here at my research center." [on monitor <412, 18 secs>] Victoria goes home. [on monitor <413, 12 secs>] Gavin goes home. [on monitor <414, 14 secs>] Protagoras disappears suddenly for parts unknown. [on monitor <415, 28 secs>] Pavel says, "The enhancements over what we're using here on MediaMOO (or at LambdaMOO) include window-based interfaces to MUD objects, a variety of shared window-based tools, and live, real-time audio and video between the participants." [on monitor <416, 1 secs>] Amy says, "someone asked about artists on the staff of MediaMOO. If you go to the E&L garden and type "find art in research directory" you'll get quite a long list in response" [on monitor <417, 6 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "pavel: how qucikly does this become a xerox computer game?" [on monitor <418, 11 secs>] The housekeeper arrives to cart St_Francis off to bed. [on monitor <419, 37 secs>] Pavel says, "For example, for the audio, when you walk into a virtual room and speak (out loud, really), the other participants in the same room hear you and you hear them." [on monitor <420, 5 secs>] Amy says, "but I should emphasize that the staff are called janitors because we try to stay in the background; all those artists are members, not 'staff'" [on monitor <421, 30 secs>] Pavel [to Ralph124c41]: I haven't seen much evidence so far of it being treated as a game at all; much more as a new and fruitful medium of casual communication. [on monitor <422, 2 secs>] Ralph124c41 thinks hmmmmmmm [on monitor <423, 15 secs>] Andre [to Pavel]: How has the staff at your campus taken to it? [on monitor <424, 2 secs>] Andre says, "In a recent article about Bellcore (The ATT research lab)" [on monitor <425, 23 secs>] Pavel blinks at the word `campus' and goes on... [on monitor <426, 6 secs>] Andre says, "it was reported that people using their system no longer use their voice phones" [on monitor <427, 14 secs>] Scamper [to Amy]: "but how much of a bias are you taking from the real world, and putting into the virtual world? As far as gender studies go, it seems like a boys club. How are you trying to alleviate this, if at all? [on monitor <428, 2 secs>] Pavel says, "The system is not yet deployed for general use, but all of the audio and video technologies are, in a less flexible package. The response to those tool has been extremely positive." [on monitor <429, 35 secs>] Jade_Guest goes out. [on monitor <430, 0 secs>] Andre says, "The moo-part is not yet deployed, but the audio/video over the net has?" [on monitor <431, 0 secs>] . . . the camera pans left to right over Autumn Conference Room . . . [on monitor <432, 0 secs>] A mellow, comfortable room with lots of sofas and couches. Outside, the trees along Memorial Drive are a luminous golden color, and whitecaps are showing on the windswept Charles River Basin. The faint odour of burning leaves drifts in through an open window. [on monitor <433, 21 secs>] [on monitor <434, 3 secs>] Scamper says, "not as in gender studies as boys club, but the Moo as boys club" [on monitor <435, 8 secs>] Amy [to Scamper]: what seems like a boys club? MediaMOO isn't, IMHO. And the MUD for kids doesn't exist yet... but there may well be some girls only classes in the after school program I plan to run to introduce kids to the kids MUD [on monitor <436, 28 secs>] Pavel [to Andre]: Those people who customarily keep the audio tool running do, in fact, often use it in preference to the normal telephone. It's easier to do, and allows more than 2-way conversations simply. [on monitor <437, 6 secs>] Scamper says, "what is the male female ratio on the moo?" [on monitor <438, 34 secs>] Pavel nods to Andre. "We didn't develop the audio and video networking technology; we're just putting it into the MUD context. [on monitor <439, 45 secs>] Scamper says, "so what's the alcohol content of Zima?" [on monitor <440, 20 secs>] Laurie materializes out of thin air. [on monitor <441, 3 secs>] Rez [to Pavel]: "Do you view this system as a graphics expanded MOO or as embryonic VR?Where is the line? [on monitor <442, 14 secs>] Pavel [to Scamper]: The M/F ratio depends strongly on the MUD. On LambdaMOO, I estimate that it's around 70/30 or 60/40. [on monitor <443, 3 secs>] Maximum number of speakers set to 8 [on monitor <444, 26 secs>] Maximum number of speakers set to 8 [on monitor <445, 0 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "i don't get the impress that the ratio of is that high" [on monitor <446, 10 secs>] Pavel [to Rez]: I don't specialize in lines very much. I think that MUDs are virtual realities with a particularly low-bandwidth communications medium. [on monitor <447, 3 secs>] Person [to Amy]: I wonder if you might have preliminary findings from MediaMOO that you might want to share with us. [on monitor <448, 10 secs>] Scamper says, "is this medium safe? What makes it so?" [on monitor <449, 0 secs>] Andre [to Pavel]: Do you see the goal as full immersion systems? [on monitor <450, 32 secs>] Pavel [to Ralph124c41]: When I made smaller estimates, several RL female MOOers corrected me. [on monitor <451, 33 secs>] Scamper says, "do you try to incorporate danger?" [on monitor <452, 7 secs>] PeterK says, "A broader question is, what sorts of deviance already exist on MediaMOO?"" [on monitor <453, 5 secs>] Pavel [to Andre]: The goal is productive or fun systems (depending on the application). For non-recreational systems like Jupiter, the goal is high interpersonal communications bandwidth, measured in usefulness, not bits. [on monitor <454, 6 secs>] Scamper says, "good question Peter!" [on monitor <455, 22 secs>] Person says, "mmmm, deviance...." [on monitor <456, 4 secs>] Person says, "i've heard about Nomad." [on monitor <457, 88 secs>] Rez says, "I've also heard..." [on monitor <458, 11 secs>] PeterK [to Amy]: Have you had to deal with the 'problem' of someone behaving in an objectionable way? [on monitor <459, 9 secs>] Maximum number of speakers set to 11 [on monitor <460, 22 secs>] Scamper says, "wait a minute, who decides objectionable?" [on monitor <461, 21 secs>] Person says, "We'll use the mainstream cultural norms for now." [on monitor <462, 22 secs>] destae19 says, "you would make a great epos sociologist scamper" [on monitor <463, 22 secs>] Pavel thinks people who are interested in deviant or objectionable behavior on MUDs should check out several of the debates now raging on LambdaMOO around various proposals for dealing with same. [on monitor <464, 1 secs>] Andre [to Pavel]: could you describe those debates? [on monitor <465, 4 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "the behavior or the.....?" [on monitor <466, 10 secs>] Maximum number of speakers set to 12 [on monitor <467, 8 secs>] PeterK [to Pavel]: I found the list of manners for LambdaMOO very interesting [on monitor <468, 12 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "could you illustrate those debates?" [on monitor <469, 7 secs>] Scamper says, "so how much power to you have, can you dump anyone you decide as dviant?, is there a list of deviant behavior, was it fun to make the list?" [on monitor <470, 31 secs>] Pavel [to Andre]: Probably not very well. They are very complex debates with speakers coming from a number of diverse points of view. [on monitor <471, 10 secs>] Amy [to PeterK]: Pavel has much more experience with antisocial behavior than I do. [on monitor <472, 8 secs>] Andre [to Pavel]: I see. You recently gave up an active role in social disputes in the MOO, didn't you? [on monitor <473, 6 secs>] Pavel frowns at Amy. "What are you implying? :-)" [on monitor <474, 7 secs>] Wade [to PeterK]: I don't want to speak for Amy, but since she isn't currently a speaker I will just say that the issue has come up. Her approach is to try to solve the problem in a collegial, low-key, non-threatening way by speaking with the offending user. [on monitor <475, 13 secs>] PeterK [to Amy]: No doubt! But will that be so in the future? [on monitor <476, 2 secs>] Scamper says, "" [on monitor <477, 5 secs>] Laughing_Star says, "I think there is less "objectionable" behavior here than in other mu*'s, because of the nature of mediaMOO" [on monitor <478, 3 secs>] Beth says, "Pavel: assuming there is no archival system running on LambdaMOO, how would one 'check out' the debates... any particular place for discussion? conferences?" [on monitor <479, 1 secs>] Wade says, "Ooops! Sorry, Amy is a speaker after all."" [on monitor <480, 1 secs>] Laughing_Star has disconnected. [on monitor <481, 4 secs>] Amy [to PeterK]: this is a much smaller place and I currently have the luxury of dealing things in a personal, friendly way [on monitor <482, 8 secs>] Wade takes his foot out of his mouth. [on monitor <483, 1 secs>] Laughing_Star has connected. [on monitor <484, 2 secs>] Amy says, "thanks wade. I just got in the queue" [on monitor <485, 10 secs>] Pavel [to Andre]: Yes, the LambdaMOO wizards stopped officially intervening in social disputes as of about six months ago. [on monitor <486, 10 secs>] Amy [to Pavel]: I mean LambdaMOO is bigger! [on monitor <487, 6 secs>] Andre [to Pavel&Amy]: to pavel This is interesting [on monitor <488, 3 secs>] Scamper says, "ah, bringing up the concept of threat, is the threat in the user of the creator, and how do you differentiate between the two?" [on monitor <489, 3 secs>] Amy [to PeterK]: I have chosen *not* to judge or intervene [on monitor <490, 4 secs>] Pavel says, "We got tired of trying to be Mommy and Daddy to thousands of people 24 hours a day..." [on monitor <491, 12 secs>] Andre [to Pavel]: after the "Leviathan" left the sceen, what happened to the MOO? [on monitor <492, 5 secs>] Laughing_Star says, "I think there is less "objectionable" behavior here than other mu*'s, because of the nature of mediaMOO. I like this one the best; it has a higher level of maturity." [on monitor <493, 15 secs>] Scamper says, "who's Liathan, please explain" [on monitor <494, 13 secs>] Amy [to PeterK]: I believe people who "act out" in that fashion are just trying to get attention. if you can spare the time, being friendly and understanding goes a long way [on monitor <495, 2 secs>] Person says, "Maturity can be variously defined." [on monitor <496, 7 secs>] Andre [to all]: Leviathan = Hobbes notion of a supreme social power (king) to ensure social order [on monitor <497, 16 secs>] Scamper says, "what's a matter with getting attention, isn't that art?" [on monitor <498, 1 secs>] Pavel [to Andre]: It's hard to say. I think that there was, indeed, a certain increase in abuse and antisocial behavior, but not as much as some had feared. Right now, though, through the petitions and ballots system, the users are socially constructing a form of government to deal with the problem. [on monitor <499, 2 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "what's the matter with art? isn't it getting attention?" [on monitor <500, 7 secs>] Person says, "I would not want to exclude too much immaturity." list1 501 to 600 Ralph124c41 lists a section of rtape1000. [on monitor <501, 38 secs>] PeterK [to Amy]: But if this is successful, this will become a very large group. Then what? [on monitor <502, 3 secs>] Wade [to Scamper]: There are artistic ways to get attention, but not all attention-getting maneuvers qualify as art! [on monitor <503, 5 secs>] Andre [to Pavel]: this is a very interesting development to me: in the absence of external autority, there is a endogenous development of order. [on monitor <504, 7 secs>] Pisthetairos says, "[to pavel] Are you taking the approach of theWELL when dealing with rules of interaction?" [on monitor <505, 1 secs>] Laughing_Star has disconnected. [on monitor <506, 1 secs>] Ralph124c41 stands and sits quickly trying to start a wave... [on monitor <507, 2 secs>] Amy [to PeterK]: many people enjoy testing limits. If you draw a line 'this is ok; that isn't' then they will just bop back with something testing that line, somewhere in between. I prefer to refuse to ever draw that line but instead say 'here is some feedback from your peers. you should think about this' [on monitor <508, 1 secs>] Pavel [to PeterK]: The user community here is, on average, far older than the one on LambdaMOO. [on monitor <509, 25 secs>] Laughing_Star has connected. [on monitor <510, 6 secs>] Scamper [to Wade]: "but do you qualify art on the moo? and what do you qualify as deviance, or "getting attention? [on monitor <511, 3 secs>] Jay says, "Kinda sheepishly, I should point out that during the transition period, a fair number of LambdaMOO regulars `gave up' on the community." [on monitor <512, 2 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "i get the impression the (mental) age at lambda moo is about 12" [on monitor <513, 3 secs>] Andre [to Pavel]: Have there been any social deviance problems in the AstroVR Moo? [on monitor <514, 6 secs>] Pavel [to Pisthetairos]: I'm not sure, since I don't know what you're referring to there. Certainly we're not emulating them in any conscious way. [on monitor <515, 2 secs>] Laughing_Star disappears suddenly for parts unknown. [on monitor <516, 17 secs>] Amy [to PeterK]: I think it would be nice to have subcommunities of a reasonable size, then. so that things can still be dealt with in this personal fashion. For example, on TrekMUSE, each starship forms a subcommunity [on monitor <517, 5 secs>] Jay says, "And there's a fair amount of frustration with the politicization of the community, but a fair amount of it I think is impatience." [on monitor <518, 6 secs>] Pavel [to Andre]: We only have two real users there so far, so it's way to easy to tell if there will be any problems. [on monitor <519, 3 secs>] Scamper says, "good question Andre!" [on monitor <520, 11 secs>] PeterK [to Amy]: Interesting idea [on monitor <521, 11 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "sounds like community control al classic maoist communism." [on monitor <522, 7 secs>] Andre [to Jay]: could you say more about the politicizatioon? [on monitor <523, 21 secs>] Pavel nods to Jay. [on monitor <524, 8 secs>] Wade [to Scamper]: I don't want to try to define 'art.' But there are clearly certain ways of getting attention, for example by attributing obnoxious actions or messages to other users, that are simply inappropriate in the kind of community we are trying to build here. [on monitor <525, 22 secs>] Ralph124c41 thinks: do we have enough beer to make it to 6? [on monitor <526, 2 secs>] Andre thinks we just might [on monitor <527, 12 secs>] Amy says, "the more I observe online communites, the more I understand the benefits of representative rather than direct democracy" [on monitor <528, 1 secs>] Jay [to Andre]: Um, hm. Very often now `rights' and `victims' is the language that debate is phrased in, more than before. [on monitor <529, 3 secs>] Pavel smiles at Amy and agrees. [on monitor <530, 13 secs>] Jay nodsnods Amy. [on monitor <531, 2 secs>] Guilt goes out. [on monitor <532, 8 secs>] PeterK smiles toward Amy [on monitor <533, 5 secs>] Scamper says, "but being obnoxious, i'm feel sketchy when somebody tries to exclude me, should I just bail out of the Moo, because nobody accepts me, or should I start my own, wait for one to come? commit suicide, become an artist?" [on monitor <534, 16 secs>] destae19 says, "so cute" [on monitor <535, 4 secs>] Andre [to Amy]: So, here on the threshold of "electronic Democracy" we are coming to realize that it *is* the worst of all forms of government, except for all the others? [on monitor <536, 3 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "let's vote on that scamper" [on monitor <537, 4 secs>] Person says, "Start your own!" [on monitor <538, 10 secs>] Jay [to Andre]: Also, we're starting to see some petitions that propose things that willing players could create and implement on their own. [on monitor <539, 14 secs>] Person says, "Give birth to a new free community." [on monitor <540, 1 secs>] Pavel [to Scamper]: As in real life, there will be virtual communities into which you will fit and ones into which you won't. Why should VR be any different in this respect from RL? [on monitor <541, 18 secs>] Person says, "To each her one and we will have fun!" [on monitor <542, 1 secs>] PeterK says, "In one sense, these places have the great luxury still of not being too large"" [on monitor <543, 1 secs>] Person says, "And be enriched of course." [on monitor <544, 0 secs>] Amy [to Andre]: not at all. What is remarkable is that I believe that this medium helps people to understand issues of government by experiencing [on monitor <545, 22 secs>] Jay doesn't fit into LambdaMOO any more. [on monitor <546, 8 secs>] Amy [to Andre]: by being between reality and unreality, they are evocative and help us to understand reality [on monitor <547, 7 secs>] Wade [to Scamper]: There are plenty of MOOs where no holds are barred. Outrageous behavior is not necessary here, and it wouldn't be an abridgment of anyone's civil rights to ask them to keep it to a minimum. [on monitor <548, 8 secs>] Mikol materializes out of thin air. [on monitor <549, 1 secs>] Pisthetairos says, "how soon will it be when the casual user will be able to start a moo?" [on monitor <550, 17 secs>] Andre [to Amy]: MOOs become workshop like communities, places to work out issues? [on monitor <551, 3 secs>] Amy [to Andre]: I think there is some interesting potential for experimentation with many forms of government-- probably better than taking a course in it [on monitor <552, 1 secs>] Jay [to wayne]: Wait, name some MOOs where no holds are barred. [on monitor <553, 34 secs>] Scamper says, "but isn't this what is shitty about RL? that those that are excluded must leave? Is A moo great just because there is so much room? and is there really a lot of room, or is it that there is a limit economically to how much Moo you can have? If thos" [on monitor <554, 2 secs>] Laurie has disconnected. [on monitor <555, 8 secs>] Amy [to Andre]: by being between reality and unreality, they help us to understand the nature of reality [on monitor <556, 1 secs>] Pavel [to Pisthetairos]: It's still some ways off. There are serious administrative issues involved in running one right now. [on monitor <557, 1 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "hey there's no more or less room in a moo than there is IRL" [on monitor <558, 24 secs>] Person says, "I aggree that there should be social spheres with defined notions of expected behavior, building in some restrictions. That way we all have a subcommunity in which to participate." [on monitor <559, 3 secs>] Amy [to Andre]: like the debate about violence on habitat-- what a remarkable story! (did you read that chapter of _First Steps_ for this class?) [on monitor <560, 6 secs>] Wade [to Jay]: Perhaps I was being hyperbolic -- I don't know specifically which MUDs are wierdness- friendly but I've heard of a ChaosMUD, for example. [on monitor <561, 1 secs>] Laurie has connected. [on monitor <562, 2 secs>] PeterK [to Person]: How do you defend the boundaries [on monitor <563, 25 secs>] Andre [to Amy]: Yes, we did [on monitor <564, 12 secs>] tina goes home. [on monitor <565, 9 secs>] Jay [to Person]: Are you on Moo-cows? I have some thoughts on how to structure MOO to make these subcommunities more explicit if desired. [on monitor <566, 9 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "PeterK: somebody will inevitably come along to define the boundaries for you." [on monitor <567, 0 secs>] Wade [to Scamper]: There isn't a lot of room, really. We just divide it up into lots of virtual rooms! [on monitor <568, 10 secs>] Amy is almost done writing a paper about gender-swapping in MUDs [on monitor <569, 10 secs>] Wade [to Beth]: Sure, e-mail me if you'd like. [on monitor <570, 1 secs>] PeterK [to Amy]: Could you say a few words [on monitor <571, 7 secs>] Person [to Jay]: No, I'm not, but sounds interesting. [on monitor <572, 16 secs>] Jay [to Wade]: I don't know of any MOOs. MUDs, sure, but most of the obnoxious ones are combat-oriented. [on monitor <573, 4 secs>] Amy [to PeterK]: about gender swapping? [on monitor <574, 0 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "Amy: have you read Garfinkel's essay on Agnes in re sex presenting?" [on monitor <575, 3 secs>] Scamper says, "after this conference, we should get everybody's e-mail adress, so we can exchange notes/papers/bomb threats" [on monitor <576, 0 secs>] Andre [to Amy]: to Amy You have raised the distinction between MOOs and RL a few times and I wonder if its a necessary distinction - what after all is the difference between the two? [on monitor <577, 32 secs>] PeterK [to Amy]: Yes.. [on monitor <578, 6 secs>] Pavel [to Scamper]: You can use the `@whois ' command here to find out email addresses. [on monitor <579, 4 secs>] Jay [to Person]: Essentially, the changes to the server would allow the wizards to securely create sub-MOOs with their own sub-wizards, and sub-sub-MOOs etc [on monitor <580, 8 secs>] Laurie disappears suddenly for parts unknown. [on monitor <581, 16 secs>] Amy [to PeterK]: basically, I argue that gender swapping is an example of one way in which the network changes people's culture and values [on monitor <582, 9 secs>] Yea has arrived. [on monitor <583, 5 secs>] Pisthetairos says, "When MOOs are easily accessable by a larger amount of the population, i predict a huge boom in special interest MOOs (i.e. pernMUSH)" [on monitor <584, 8 secs>] PeterK [to Amy]: Though @more [on monitor <585, 7 secs>] Pavel agrees with Pisthetairos. [on monitor <586, 3 secs>] Scamper [to Amy,"but]: is this a change of culture, or a fitting of culture on the Moo? [on monitor <587, 1 secs>] Person [,to]: Jay Ok, sounds good. I mean a little community is nice, but noone wants to be restricted by the community and there's no reasion why we can't foster more freedom in cyberspace. [on monitor <588, 7 secs>] Jay is confused, thought that MUD was the generic term for these text-based vrs. [on monitor <589, 12 secs>] Wade [to Jay]: You're right about that, I'm sure. I should have said MUDs, not MOOs. [on monitor <590, 2 secs>] PeterK [to Amy]: though it tends to be almost all m to f rather than vica versa, yes? [on monitor <591, 19 secs>] Pavel nods to Jay. "Me too..." [on monitor <592, 1 secs>] Laurie materializes out of thin air. [on monitor <593, 6 secs>] Amy [to PeterK]: the opportunity to be the opposite gender (without risk of social stigma or large time investment) helps people to defamiliarize every day experiennce and throws into high relief the way gender structures basic human interactions-- something which is always true, but often hard to observe [on monitor <594, 8 secs>] Pavel shakes his head at PeterK. "Not at all..." [on monitor <595, 1 secs>] Jay [to Person]: Oh no, players would be able to go anywhere, but their bodies would obey the universe rules of whatever sub-MOO they were in, until they jacked out of it. [on monitor <596, 30 secs>] PeterK says, "really?" [on monitor <597, 4 secs>] Amy [to PeterK]: some women get tired of being besieged with attention and decide to be guys so they can be left alone [on monitor <598, 21 secs>] Pavel says, "Many female users present as male on MUDs, usually primarily to avoid harrassment." [on monitor <599, 22 secs>] PeterK looks interested [on monitor <600, 2 secs>] Amy [to PeterK]: women also, on a somewhat related subject, often use the ability to represent your self to explore issues of body image list1 601 to 700 Ralph124c41 lists a section of rtape1000. [on monitor <601, 7 secs>] SARAH looks interested [on monitor <602, 5 secs>] Pavel points to his paper on social phenomena in MUDs. [on monitor <603, 3 secs>] Jay says, "Many female users present as spivak (a form of neuter), which tends to make people suspect any spivak-presenter of being female." [on monitor <604, 22 secs>] Andre [to all]: I wonder: the solution to social problems in cyberspace often is: create more real estate. Can that go on forever? [on monitor <605, 3 secs>] Jay [to Andre]: Information expands to fill all available capacity. [on monitor <606, 28 secs>] PeterK says, "interesting question" [on monitor <607, 7 secs>] Beth has disconnected. [on monitor <608, 8 secs>] Amy [to Andre]: that's what so interesting about these governmental debates on MUDs. they are often confronting the very real issue of the limited resources of the machine [on monitor <609, 6 secs>] Scamper says, "is spivak named after the french theorist?" [on monitor <610, 2 secs>] Pavel [to Andre]: I think that impulse is related to the one causing the current wave of Balkanization on a national scale in the real world. I think breaking up into smaller communities is a healthy impulse, but often those people end up feeling isolated. [on monitor <611, 0 secs>] Pisthetairos says, "are there MOOs in which you can't define your gender?" [on monitor <612, 2 secs>] Jay [to Andre]: Also, there have been some disasters when the technology wasn't ready for it. TinyMUD Classic had somewhere around 100k objects when it went down, with at *least* 20k rooms. And nobody used them. [on monitor <613, 5 secs>] Wade [to Andre]: I don't see how that can be a solution. It's only 'virtual real estate' that you're creating; you still have the same number of people using the server, who have to get along with each other. Unless you just want to subdivide the population so people don't run into each other as often; but that defeats the whole point of social VR. [on monitor <614, 7 secs>] Amy [to Andre]: balancing ideals like 'everyone should be able to build' with resource limitations [on monitor <615, 13 secs>] Andre says, "True, but by creating new space, isn't the solution to alwasy *avoid* conflict, not resolve it?" [on monitor <616, 15 secs>] Pavel [to Pisthetairos]: Not that I'm aware of. [on monitor <617, 12 secs>] Amy [to Andre]: many MUDs get shut down because they grow too big. these issues come up all the time and provoke fascinating debates [on monitor <618, 1 secs>] Andre steps out for a moment [on monitor <619, 4 secs>] Jay doesn't want a partition of people, he wants overlapping groups [on monitor <620, 1 secs>] PeterK says, "The thing about breaking up into small communities.." [on monitor <621, 16 secs>] Scamper [to the]: females [on monitor <622, 14 secs>] PeterK says, "is that it encourages cooperation within the group, but.." [on monitor <623, 8 secs>] PeterK says, "can encourage conflict across group boundaries" [on monitor <624, 4 secs>] Pisthetairos says, "Why is that an essential function, as apposed to say race or religion?" [on monitor <625, 3 secs>] Amy nods to peterk. "Interesting issue" [on monitor <626, 22 secs>] Scamper [to the]: females, is gender important to you on the Moo? do you want to REALLY know who you are talking to? [on monitor <627, 10 secs>] Jay, in his groups, tends more often to talk to the human on the other end instead of the player. [on monitor <628, 5 secs>] PeterK says, "In-group identity is a very double-edged source of cooperation" [on monitor <629, 17 secs>] Scamper [to Jay]: [on monitor <630, 3 secs>] Scamper says, "how do you differentiate between human and player? " [on monitor <631, 33 secs>] Pavel [to Pisthetairos]: Perhaps because it is (almost) universally a dividing line in communities. For race or religion, you often find homogenous communities, but not so for gender. [on monitor <632, 1 secs>] Bob materializes out of thin air. [on monitor <633, 1 secs>] SARAH says, "yes I want to know who I am talking to, things do tend to fall into place" [on monitor <634, 5 secs>] Amy [to PeterK]: my example of subcommunities was ships on trekmuse. ships are organized into empires. in times of peace, people on ships in the same empire fight like rival high schools. in times of war, they bond together against the enemy. but in trekmuse, there's always an enemy to shoot at-- that's part of the point. [on monitor <635, 14 secs>] Scamper says, "Does everybody agree that Zima burps like beer?" [on monitor <636, 9 secs>] PeterK says, "interesting" [on monitor <637, 3 secs>] Jay [to Scamper]: well, like in most text media, it's easy to forget that there's actually a real live person out there somewhere instead of just a stream of ASCII characters [on monitor <638, 4 secs>] Amy [to PeterK]: I don't know what happens without an enemy... [on monitor <639, 19 secs>] Pavel says, "The desire to know the gender of the people you're talking to is not, by any means, limited to women." [on monitor <640, 6 secs>] SARAH says, "good point Pavel" [on monitor <641, 20 secs>] PeterK [to Amy]: Actually, the one factor that has been shown to break down group boundaries is a super- ordinate enemy [on monitor <642, 3 secs>] The housekeeper arrives to cart Beth off to bed. [on monitor <643, 3 secs>] PeterK [to Amy]: It explains alot of political rhetoric [on monitor <644, 15 secs>] Jay hehs at PeterK [on monitor <645, 2 secs>] Amy listens with interest. [on monitor <646, 12 secs>] Wade [to PeterK]: But only temporarily, as E. Europe illustrates. [on monitor <647, 14 secs>] PeterK says, "Quite true" [on monitor <648, 1 secs>] Laurie has disconnected. [on monitor <649, 11 secs>] PeterK says, "You have to continually re- invent the evil empire" [on monitor <650, 1 secs>] Jay . o O ( fortress europa ) [on monitor <651, 9 secs>] Laurie has connected. [on monitor <652, 0 secs>] . . . the camera pans left to right over Autumn Conference Room . . . [on monitor <653, 0 secs>] A mellow, comfortable room with lots of sofas and couches. Outside, the trees along Memorial Drive are a luminous golden color, and whitecaps are showing on the windswept Charles River Basin. The faint odour of burning leaves drifts in through an open window. [on monitor <654, 1 secs>] [on monitor <655, 26 secs>] Wade says, "Our evil empire now seems to be either Japan or Fundamentalist Islam." [on monitor <656, 3 secs>] Jay [to Wade]: How 'bout the US Government? [on monitor <657, 3 secs>] Jay :-) [on monitor <658, 12 secs>] Person says, "I see no problem with subcommunities, but there does need to be a core normative commitment that is minimal, but which bonds together the entire community of subcommunities." [on monitor <659, 1 secs>] Jay nods to Person. [on monitor <660, 14 secs>] SARAH -) [on monitor <661, 4 secs>] Amy . o O ( this is where the interdisciplinary nature of this place gets really exciting. ) [on monitor <662, 32 secs>] Wade laughs. [on monitor <663, 0 secs>] PeterK goes out. [on monitor <664, 4 secs>] Scamper says, "so, has psychoanalytic theory invaded the moo yet?" [on monitor <665, 17 secs>] Pavel is going to have to leave pretty soon. "Did anyone have any other questions specifically for me, before I go?" [on monitor <666, 11 secs>] PeterK has arrived. [on monitor <667, 6 secs>] Jay [to Pavel]: [on monitor <668, 1 secs>] Silver_Guest materializes out of thin air. [on monitor <669, 1 secs>] Jay ducks [on monitor <670, 6 secs>] Pisthetairos says, "[to Pavel] I assume the gender separation is universal because of the tlink to the physical is obvious, but in this 'new dimension' with no physical body, per se, why are we so determined to stay with it?" [on monitor <671, 3 secs>] Pavel [to Jay]: Don't ask. :-) [on monitor <672, 6 secs>] Wade [to Person]: I agree -- One thing that will be good for all concerned on MediaMOO is if the STS users cross-pollinate ideas and interests with the computers & media folks. But the overriding interest of all is in the professional & education uses of MUDs. [on monitor <673, 3 secs>] Jay giggles. [on monitor <674, 25 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "i'm still curious about how much of what you're doing at xerox is for the research, and how fast it ends up in the market--given parc's experience with apple." [on monitor <675, 2 secs>] Jay [to Pavel]: Actually, a real question: what is the copyright status of LambdaCore? [on monitor <676, 27 secs>] Pavel [to Pisthetairos]: Because we are still physical beings. Remember, it's only the space that's new; the people are just exactly the same as before. [on monitor <677, 29 secs>] Pavel [to Jay]: Damn good question. Next question? :-) Sorry, but I really don't know. [on monitor <678, 8 secs>] Bob goes home. [on monitor <679, 12 secs>] Laurie disappears suddenly for parts unknown. [on monitor <680, 10 secs>] Rez says, "Who owns our words here? Do we own our own? Does the MOO own them?" [on monitor <681, 22 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "good question" [on monitor <682, 0 secs>] Diane materializes out of thin air. [on monitor <683, 16 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "i know i'm going to cite you in my paper and not ask for your permission" [on monitor <684, 16 secs>] Andre [to pave&jay]: It is a good question: what is the ownership rights of contributors to remote projects? [on monitor <685, 11 secs>] Andre says, "its not going to be settled easily, I suspect" [on monitor <686, 1 secs>] Diane disappears suddenly for parts unknown. [on monitor <687, 1 secs>] Cerulean_Guest has arrived. [on monitor <688, 3 secs>] Wade [to Rez]: My guess would be that the speaker owns his/her words unless they've explicitly ceded that ownership. [on monitor <689, 12 secs>] Scamper says, "is sexuality absent from the moo? do you try to eliminate it in the creation,?" [on monitor <690, 0 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "not under the law they don't" [on monitor <691, 5 secs>] Jay says, "The first piece of MOO in-db software that I know of with a copyright is $gopher." [on monitor <692, 13 secs>] Pavel [to Andre]: We don't even know the real situation on copyright or ownership of email. MUDs are much harder... [on monitor <693, 1 secs>] Amy [to Rez]: are you asking legally or socially? [on monitor <694, 3 secs>] Andre [to Wade]: This is the WELL Yoyow priciple [on monitor <695, 12 secs>] Bacall materializes out of thin air. [on monitor <696, 1 secs>] Guilt has arrived. [on monitor <697, 11 secs>] Pavel [to Scamper]: Sexuality is *certainly not* absent. There is a quite a lot of MUD sex going on. [on monitor <698, 1 secs>] Jay hehs [on monitor <699, 18 secs>] Wade [to Andre]: Please explain -- you are what you write? <-- A guess. [on monitor <700, 2 secs>] Amy says, "You Own Your Own Words" list1 701 to 800 Ralph124c41 lists a section of rtape1000. [on monitor <701, 9 secs>] Jay says, "Player classes have been written to expediate MUD sex, in fact." [on monitor <702, 2 secs>] Wade nods, enlightened. [on monitor <703, 17 secs>] Pavel nods to Jay. [on monitor <704, 1 secs>] Silver_Guest disappears suddenly for parts unknown. [on monitor <705, 14 secs>] Jay says, "back in the bad old days of the bigoted player class wars" [on monitor <706, 2 secs>] Pavel says, "Seriously, a lot of people have found that MUDs are a very interesting arena for explicitly sexual speech and `activity'." [on monitor <707, 28 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "Jay, do we need a new program to prolong moo sex?" [on monitor <708, 2 secs>] Amy says, "the creators of the WELL invented that phrase because they were afraid of legal liability... they meant 'you are responsible for your own words' but the wording they chose for the maxim conveyed something quite different" [on monitor <709, 18 secs>] Jay peers at his diction [on monitor <710, 10 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "good point" [on monitor <711, 21 secs>] Scamper says, "Azure, I'm trying to get whisper to work, and am still figuring it out, that's not what I'm trying to say" [on monitor <712, 7 secs>] Maximum number of speakers set to 15 [on monitor <713, 19 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "despite what they say over there, i don't think the law would agree that YOYOW" [on monitor <714, 4 secs>] Andre says, "YOYOW has not had a legal test as yet." [on monitor <715, 1 secs>] Guest says, "longer is not always better ... is it?" [on monitor <716, 1 secs>] Person [to Amy]: What findings do you have on the subject of MOO sex on MediaMOO? [on monitor <717, 19 secs>] Jay is taking a more formal tone here than he usually does online, and thus should be thinking a little more about what he writes, since it's not what he's used to. [on monitor <718, 3 secs>] Andre says, "But it has had a number of social tests, some quite rigorous" [on monitor <719, 2 secs>] Jay bets YOYOW got a big boost from the Berne Convention [on monitor <720, 2 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "would Jay like to explain that, Jay?" [on monitor <721, 10 secs>] LynC goes home. [on monitor <722, 0 secs>] destae19 says, "do you have something personal that you want to contribute person?" [on monitor <723, 5 secs>] Amy says, "I suppose the law turns on the idea of 'reasonable expectation of privacy' And here it's reasonable to exptect none! Which is a shame" [on monitor <724, 8 secs>] Pavel has to head off now. "Bye, all. It was fun chatting with y'all." [on monitor <725, 7 secs>] Pavel waves. [on monitor <726, 1 secs>] PeterK [to Pavel]: Thanks [on monitor <727, 0 secs>] Pavel goes out. [on monitor <728, 5 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "Bye! thanks!" [on monitor <729, 0 secs>] Andre says, "Bye!" [on monitor <730, 2 secs>] Guest says, "privacy may be the greatest hinderance to sexual freedom" [on monitor <731, 0 secs>] destae19 says, "ta!" [on monitor <732, 7 secs>] Person says, "Bye Pavel. Thanks." [on monitor <733, 3 secs>] Jay [to Ralph124c41]: well, I'm usta talking like this on my moo, where we're all pretty casual. I'm trying to fit in here, so my speech patterns shift, sorta. [on monitor <734, 14 secs>] Wade says, "Here's a real-world test of all this: How would people feel if a transcript of this session were available for anonymous ftp? or on a MOO videotape? (both of which are planned)" [on monitor <735, 10 secs>] Person says, "But we can always lock rooms." [on monitor <736, 1 secs>] Guest says, "as long as we get no crank phone calls :-)" [on monitor <737, 3 secs>] Rez says, "Thanks Pavel" [on monitor <738, 6 secs>] Person says, "If one is a creator of it." [on monitor <739, 33 secs>] Jay knew there was a recording device here and this is a public room, so he doesn't really care that much. [on monitor <740, 4 secs>] Andre says, "Keep in mind that a "reasonable expectation of privacy" is an American convention" [on monitor <741, 2 secs>] Jay [to Ralph124c41]: It wasn't conscious until you picked at my word choice back there. :-) [on monitor <742, 1 secs>] Person says, "This public discourse." [on monitor <743, 5 secs>] Andre says, "And Moos are not merely American" [on monitor <744, 0 secs>] Amy nods to andre. "Good point" [on monitor <745, 5 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "Who was it back there that was saying YOYOW gots boost from Berne? I think that's a misreading" [on monitor <746, 4 secs>] Person says, "This is public discourse." [on monitor <747, 16 secs>] Jay [on monitor <748, 8 secs>] Not really --Guilt [on monitor <749, 37 secs>] Andre [to Person]: Semi-public - there are sever technical boundaries [on monitor <750, 12 secs>] Jay says, "YOYOW was not the point of Berne, but it seems closer than the previous state." [on monitor <751, 11 secs>] Wade says, "That's what I figured." [on monitor <752, 1 secs>] Wade wonders what department is offering this sociology of cyberspace class, and what kinds of requirements it satisfies, if any. [on monitor <753, 18 secs>] Guest says, "what did you figure" [on monitor <754, 4 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "Jay-that's a wish that I don't think the law would agree with. " [on monitor <755, 1 secs>] Andre says, "Open question: The nets are getting bigger and more "public" - any ideas how the "public" will take to MOOs?" [on monitor <756, 2 secs>] Howard has arrived. [on monitor <757, 15 secs>] Wade [to Guest]: I figured that people did not have qualms about the taping & dissemination of this conversation. [on monitor <758, 1 secs>] Amy [to Person]: to answer a question you asked a few minutes ago, I don't know anything about TinySex (that's what it's often called) on MediaMOO. But I have interviewed MUDders who practice it regularly-- online and in person-- as part of a project I conducted with Sherry Turkle last summer [on monitor <759, 1 secs>] PeterK [to Wade]: it's being offered as a seniot/graduate seminar in sociology [on monitor <760, 7 secs>] Guest says, "oh, yeah that's ok" [on monitor <761, 0 secs>] . . .the camera zooms in on Howard. . . [on monitor <762, 5 secs>] I swim in media soup. [on monitor <763, 3 secs>] Guilt flattens out into a largish 29 cent postage stamp and floats away. [on monitor <764, 21 secs>] Andre [to Wade]: Sociology of Cyberspace is an Offering of the Dept of Sociology, UCLA [on monitor <765, 10 secs>] Andre [to Howard]: Welcome! [on monitor <766, 1 secs>] Guilt materializes out of thin air. [on monitor <767, 3 secs>] PeterK [to Howard]: Thanks for coming [on monitor <768, 15 secs>] Andre [to everyone]: I'd like to welcome Howard Rheingold [on monitor <769, 3 secs>] Guest says, "hello howard" [on monitor <770, 0 secs>] . . .the camera zooms in on Howard. . . [on monitor <771, 12 secs>] I swim in media soup. [on monitor <772, 1 secs>] Jay [to Ralph124c41]: The test cases I was pondering were: uploading a software package, uploading a mail message, and editing a mail message online [on monitor <773, 14 secs>] Guest says, "let howard say something" [on monitor <774, 26 secs>] Ralph124c41 thinks; he doesn't look anything like his description. [on monitor <775, 22 secs>] Andre [to Howard]: Can I ask you to say a few words [on monitor <776, 3 secs>] Wade says, "Glad to meet you, Howard." [on monitor <777, 67 secs>] Guest spins around [on monitor <778, 1 secs>] Larry says, "I've been quiet, but I had some things I wanted to say" [on monitor <779, 12 secs>] Maximum number of speakers set to 20 [on monitor <780, 1 secs>] Guest says, "Hello Larry" [on monitor <781, 20 secs>] Andre [to Howard]: Please req a speaker spot [on monitor <782, 7 secs>] Larry says, "One of the things was about the correlation between anonymity and unacceptable behavior" [on monitor <783, 1 secs>] Guilt disappears suddenly for parts unknown. [on monitor <784, 3 secs>] Andre says, "The question I would ask is: You have studied a vast spectrum of virtual "communities"" [on monitor <785, 27 secs>] Guest says, "yeah ..." [on monitor <786, 2 secs>] Andre says, "What kinds of common problems/solutions do see emerging in these communities?" [on monitor <787, 7 secs>] Larry says, "I don't think it is complete, but I do think that, the sense that you aren't REALLY responsible for what you say on LambdaMOO contributes a lot to unacceptable behavior there" [on monitor <788, 9 secs>] destae19 has disconnected. [on monitor <789, 9 secs>] Larry says, "The second thing I wanted to say was about privacy" [on monitor <790, 5 secs>] Maximum number of speakers set to 22 [on monitor <791, 16 secs>] Jay [to Larry]: Cf JaysHouseMOO, where everyone goes by their real names. [on monitor <792, 9 secs>] Larry says, "I don't think people are nearly aware of how many cases of spying, breaking, cracking there've been on LambdaMOO" [on monitor <793, 3 secs>] Larry says, "eavesdropping on private conversations, etc." [on monitor <794, 8 secs>] Andre [to Larry]: Go on... [on monitor <795, 1 secs>] PeterK says, "interesting" [on monitor <796, 24 secs>] Guest says, "How do we find that out?" [on monitor <797, 1 secs>] Larry says, "well, there were several cases that we knew about last year" [on monitor <798, 10 secs>] destae19 has connected. [on monitor <799, 4 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "Or, in the email context Larry, how many sysops routinely read all email." [on monitor <800, 12 secs>] Jay has caught four people attempting to eavesdrop on him, and probably more would have tried except he's known to be clueful about this list1 801 to 900 Ralph124c41 lists a section of rtape1000. [on monitor <801, 33 secs>] Larry nods. "Yes, that's a similar situation, isn't it, Ralph" [on monitor <802, 1 secs>] Guest says, "Look what happened to symantec and borland" [on monitor <803, 11 secs>] Howard has disconnected. [on monitor <804, 2 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "but of course, a simple rule is down't say anything you don't want overheard" [on monitor <805, 11 secs>] Larry says, "However, the mechanisms for encrypted electronic mail seem to be directed toward two-way communication" [on monitor <806, 3 secs>] Larry says, "Ralph, that's hardly reasonable" [on monitor <807, 2 secs>] Jay [to Ralph124c41]: Too bad ethernet isn't secure. [on monitor <808, 14 secs>] Guest says, "that's ok, but do we voluntarily give up the first amendment?" [on monitor <809, 8 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "hmmmm, and why not? " [on monitor <810, 10 secs>] Guest says, "oh please..." [on monitor <811, 15 secs>] Person says, "Yes, I was eavesdropped on by a spy puppet right here in MediaMOO. It was Horrible!" [on monitor <812, 1 secs>] Wade has to log off and head home now. He says, "This was fun. Thanks for inviting me! I'd be happy to correspond with any and all by e-mail." [on monitor <813, 3 secs>] Daniel (painless) has arrived. [on monitor <814, 3 secs>] Person is still recovering from the psycho-damage. [on monitor <815, 1 secs>] Mikol has disconnected. [on monitor <816, 8 secs>] Larry says, "Yes, that's the simplest. There've been a variety of other methods." [on monitor <817, 1 secs>] Elizabeth says, "No, you don't give up the first amendment, but if you choose to broadcast your words to a large number of people, be prepared for the consequences." [on monitor <818, 3 secs>] PeterK [to Wade]: Bye! [on monitor <819, 5 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "thanks Wade! we appreciate you're coming by!" [on monitor <820, 3 secs>] Wade says, "My pleasure." [on monitor <821, 3 secs>] Jay has disconnected. [on monitor <822, 1 secs>] Wade waves. [on monitor <823, 1 secs>] Ralph124c41 waves enfusively [on monitor <824, 2 secs>] Andre [to Wade]: BYE!! [on monitor <825, 3 secs>] SARAH waves to wade [on monitor <826, 13 secs>] PeterK waves [on monitor <827, 1 secs>] Wade goes home. [on monitor <828, 3 secs>] Rez waves [on monitor <829, 3 secs>] Guest says, "Elizabth: good point, then the struggle is to redefine what is appropriate (which is always contested)..." [on monitor <830, 17 secs>] Pisthetairos waves [on monitor <831, 2 secs>] Larry says, "Well, I'd like to see whether the 'threat' that your name might be revealed will reduce the amount of aberant behavior." [on monitor <832, 6 secs>] Guest wave and head explodes ... just kidding [on monitor <833, 16 secs>] Cerulean_Guest says, "An" [on monitor <834, 8 secs>] Larry says, "unsocial behavior, that is" [on monitor <835, 14 secs>] Guest says, "elizabeth, still there?" [on monitor <836, 8 secs>] destae19 says, "oh andre" [on monitor <837, 5 secs>] Elizabeth says, ""Far: I guess we have to come up with the definition as a group." [on monitor <838, 3 secs>] Jay has connected. [on monitor <839, 2 secs>] Bacall says, "what constitutes spying, eavesdropping?" [on monitor <840, 16 secs>] Cerulean_Guest says, "Speaking of names, any way to get a Guest name changed to something else? Bill Shefski here."" [on monitor <841, 1 secs>] PeterK [to Bill]: Hi! [on monitor <842, 9 secs>] Person says, "Hi Bill." [on monitor <843, 2 secs>] Andre says, "Hi, Bill!" [on monitor <844, 1 secs>] destae19 says, "Ta!" [on monitor <845, 2 secs>] Bacall says, "you need to put in a character request" [on monitor <846, 1 secs>] Guest says, "eliz: (name is Fal, ok)... who do we let into the group, and how do we deal with different forms of difference?" [on monitor <847, 3 secs>] Cerulean_Guest says, "Hiya. Made it better late than never."" [on monitor <848, 22 secs>] SARAH says, "hi bill" [on monitor <849, 5 secs>] Cerulean_Guest says, "Character req. will do"" [on monitor <850, 5 secs>] Person [to Bacall]: when the character is not really there, but an object they create is reocrding, listening to everythjng that happens in the room. [on monitor <851, 0 secs>] . . . the camera pans left to right over Autumn Conference Room . . . [on monitor <852, 0 secs>] A mellow, comfortable room with lots of sofas and couches. Outside, the trees along Memorial Drive are a luminous golden color, and whitecaps are showing on the windswept Charles River Basin. The faint odour of burning leaves drifts in through an open window. [on monitor <853, 12 secs>] [on monitor <854, 1 secs>] Guest jumps in front of the camera [on monitor <855, 5 secs>] Mirror goes home. [on monitor <856, 6 secs>] The housekeeper arrives to cart Howard off to bed. [on monitor <857, 3 secs>] Andre combs his hair [on monitor <858, 1 secs>] Bacall says, "I didn't realize that could be done" [on monitor <859, 3 secs>] Scamper says, "what was the easy way to type whisper into the moo?" [on monitor <860, 17 secs>] Elizabeth says, "Sorry Fal, mistype, I still think there are some basics that the community can agree upon." [on monitor <861, 13 secs>] Guest says, "eliz: tell me mrore about fischer" [on monitor <862, 1 secs>] SARAH says, "what do you mean scamper" [on monitor <863, 13 secs>] Jay [to Person]: Actually, when someone not known to the participants is receiving what happens in the room. [on monitor <864, 15 secs>] Elizabeth says, "Who's fischer?" [on monitor <865, 1 secs>] Guest says, "Michael Fischer, the anthropologist you talked about. " [on monitor <866, 10 secs>] Scamper says, "somebody mentioned an easy way to whisper before, could you repeat it?" [on monitor <867, 0 secs>] Jay says, "mu name message" [on monitor <868, 3 secs>] The housekeeper arrives to cart Mikol off to bed. [on monitor <869, 10 secs>] Guest says, "is he the one who wrote with Marcus on Anthro as Cultural Critique" [on monitor <870, 2 secs>] Guilt materializes out of thin air. [on monitor <871, 3 secs>] Andre says, "I'd like to know about a shorthand whisper as well" [on monitor <872, 23 secs>] Azure_Guest says, "yes please tell us how to whisper more efficiently" [on monitor <873, 4 secs>] Bacall says, "How do you whisper?" [on monitor <874, 15 secs>] Elizabeth says, "Fal: I'm afraid I don't remember at all, I feel clueless." [on monitor <875, 3 secs>] Guest says, "that's ok, maybe it was someone else..." [on monitor <876, 3 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "you know how to whisper, you just pucker up and blow." [on monitor <877, 2 secs>] Amy says, "well, I should be going" [on monitor <878, 1 secs>] Guest says, "I'm so confused" [on monitor <879, 4 secs>] Andre says, "wsmr.simtel-20.mil" [on monitor <880, 2 secs>] Jay | >mu guest foo [on monitor <881, 1 secs>] Andre waves [on monitor <882, 1 secs>] PeterK [to Amy]: Bye! [on monitor <883, 1 secs>] Guest says, "tis Zima is great!" [on monitor <884, 0 secs>] Jay | You whisper, "foo" to Guest. [on monitor <885, 3 secs>] Andre says, "Bye Amy!" [on monitor <886, 1 secs>] Azure_Guest wave bye [on monitor <887, 0 secs>] Elizabeth wave [on monitor <888, 1 secs>] PeterK waves to amy [on monitor <889, 0 secs>] Person says, "Amy, thanks for soming by." [on monitor <890, 1 secs>] Bacall says, "bye amy" [on monitor <891, 1 secs>] Albert waves to Amy. [on monitor <892, 2 secs>] Jay waves [on monitor <893, 3 secs>] SARAH waves to amy [on monitor <894, 2 secs>] Amy says, "thank you all for an intersting discussion-- one of the more interesting we've had here" [on monitor <895, 1 secs>] destae19 says, "TA!" [on monitor <896, 1 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "Hey, amy, thanks, it's been terrific, although i think we probably had more beer than you did." [on monitor <897, 6 secs>] Amy waves [on monitor <898, 1 secs>] Ralph124c41 waves [on monitor <899, 1 secs>] Guest says, "please stay in touch" [on monitor <900, 13 secs>] Person thinks she likes us. list1 901 to 1000 Ralph124c41 lists a section of rtape1000. [on monitor <901, 1 secs>] Guest thinks ... [on monitor <902, 1 secs>] Amy does [on monitor <903, 1 secs>] Amy smiles [on monitor <904, 19 secs>] Amy goes home. [on monitor <905, 2 secs>] Guest does handstand across the room [on monitor <906, 13 secs>] Person says, "Three cheers for Amy!" [on monitor <907, 1 secs>] Andre says, "Well, I wonder - what happens when this stuff gets *really* public?" [on monitor <908, 9 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "hip., hip....." [on monitor <909, 3 secs>] Guilt goes out. [on monitor <910, 3 secs>] Bacall disappears suddenly for parts unknown. [on monitor <911, 4 secs>] Guest says, "Too hip to care, and too drunk to stop it" [on monitor <912, 19 secs>] Cerulean_Guest says, "Bill S says...@rename request denied. O well. " [on monitor <913, 6 secs>] Guest says, "can I go wee?" [on monitor <914, 2 secs>] Andre [to Bill]: That will probably only work with a character, not a guest. [on monitor <915, 2 secs>] Scamper says, "yes" [on monitor <916, 2 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "not where you are at present" [on monitor <917, 2 secs>] Person suggests the RL bathroom. [on monitor <918, 1 secs>] Guest says, "Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee......" [on monitor <919, 1 secs>] Cerulean_Guest says, "How many are still here from CA?"" [on monitor <920, 7 secs>] Jay [to Andre]: LambdaMOO got too big and there are a number of new MOOs because of it. [on monitor <921, 15 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "everybody" [on monitor <922, 1 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "i think, if you mean ca is this one room here" [on monitor <923, 16 secs>] destae19 says, "what is ca?" [on monitor <924, 3 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "CAlifornia" [on monitor <925, 1 secs>] Daniel (painless) goes out. [on monitor <926, 1 secs>] Andre says, "CA = California, UCLA, to be exact" [on monitor <927, 2 secs>] Cerulean_Guest says, "are you all in the same room? CA is the Great State of California."" [on monitor <928, 4 secs>] Jay is from Minnesota. [on monitor <929, 2 secs>] destae19 says, "or is that conversation analysis" [on monitor <930, 6 secs>] Albert is at MIT. [on monitor <931, 4 secs>] Andre says, "There are 16 of us in the same room." [on monitor <932, 2 secs>] Guest says, "I'm from the state of confusion" [on monitor <933, 9 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "yep, everybody's in the same room, buck naked" [on monitor <934, 10 secs>] Scamper says, "does it really matter where you're from?" [on monitor <935, 0 secs>] Guest says, "No, only where you go" [on monitor <936, 2 secs>] Rez says, "Yes, we're all in the same room so we have interesting non-MOO back-channels going on (see Ralph's message...)" [on monitor <937, 17 secs>] Scamper says, "what's with all the meaning enhancement?" [on monitor <938, 2 secs>] Person says, "Does it really matter if you're naked?" [on monitor <939, 1 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "hey, they only thing you have to worry about in CA is being allegic to chlorine (in the hot tub here)" [on monitor <940, 0 secs>] Cerulean_Guest says, "Peter, what affect do you think the fact that all of those 16 will have to be face to face at some point has on how they cyber-project?"" [on monitor <941, 3 secs>] Guest says, "I need to go here, there, everywhere" [on monitor <942, 24 secs>] Guest says, "follow me" [on monitor <943, 9 secs>] PeterK says, "I'm sure it has a large effect" [on monitor <944, 0 secs>] Person agrees. [on monitor <945, 11 secs>] Andre [to Jay]: Re:size - When Lambda got too big, what was straing? [on monitor <946, 2 secs>] PeterK says, "good question" [on monitor <947, 4 secs>] Guest says, "test 123" [on monitor <948, 33 secs>] SARAH says, "" [on monitor <949, 8 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "oh lord the beer fumes are begining to float the room!" [on monitor <950, 16 secs>] Jay [to Andre]: The server, both in memory and response time. The community too, which was already talked about, I think [on monitor <951, 1 secs>] Pisthetairos says, "how can a MOO be *too* big?" [on monitor <952, 5 secs>] Andre says, "I expected the technical limitations, but they'll go away some day." [on monitor <953, 5 secs>] Ralph124c41 sing [on monitor <954, 2 secs>] Ralph124c41 singing [on monitor <955, 4 secs>] Andre says, "I would like to know more about the social limits...!" [on monitor <956, 0 secs>] Jay isn't that optimistic, Andre [on monitor <957, 4 secs>] Guest burps [on monitor <958, 8 secs>] Rez stops Ralph from singing [on monitor <959, 13 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "oh, I am the man, the very fat man, that waters the worker's beer...." [on monitor <960, 18 secs>] Andre [to Jay]: Ok, maybe there will remain technical troubles, but the social ones are still central, I think. [on monitor <961, 1 secs>] Jay doesn't really know what happened, just that fewer people that he liked would show up and stay. [on monitor <962, 19 secs>] Elizabeth says, "Ralph, there are still more beers left!" [on monitor <963, 1 secs>] Andre . o O ( hmmmmm.... ) [on monitor <964, 4 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "so many beers, so little time...." [on monitor <965, 10 secs>] Yea drops Megabeer. [on monitor <966, 3 secs>] Cerulean_Guest rolls eyes [on monitor <967, 13 secs>] destae19 says, "uuummmmmm beeer" [on monitor <968, 2 secs>] Andre says, "There is something that a community needs, that it looses when it grows too big." [on monitor <969, 11 secs>] Rez rolls Cerulean_Guest's eyes back to him [on monitor <970, 1 secs>] Jay says, "Oh, and there was a huge backlash against the so-called `Power Elite' which was really more of a rebellion against the social conventions of the MOO." [on monitor <971, 2 secs>] Jay nodsnods [on monitor <972, 10 secs>] Cerulean_Guest says, "Good cathc, rez."" [on monitor <973, 9 secs>] Jay <- radical decentralist [on monitor <974, 0 secs>] Andre as well [on monitor <975, 5 secs>] Elizabeth says, "The group loses accountability among its members. The anonymity allows them to free ride." [on monitor <976, 13 secs>] PeterK [to Jay]: no central planning for you, eh? [on monitor <977, 7 secs>] Cerulean_Guest says, "Is there a wizard present. I hate cerulean blue."" [on monitor <978, 4 secs>] Andre says, "What Lambda conventions were criticised?" [on monitor <979, 25 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "yeah, but the center has to find a way to hold..." [on monitor <980, 20 secs>] Person says, "So create a world where they can freeride to their hearts content and maybe they won't want to come to places where that kind of behavior is not requested, desired." [on monitor <981, 6 secs>] Rez says, "But what is a free ride. Sometimes we'd probably prefer it if a character did NOT speak. Silence has its place (in music, in conversation, in MOOs?)" [on monitor <982, 3 secs>] Pisthetairos says, "What is going to happen when the'public finds out that explicit materialcan be accessed thru the net? will there be a major crackdown, thus laws imposed on cyberspace by external gov'ts?" [on monitor <983, 2 secs>] Jay [to Andre]: Restrictions to `themely' building. Exiling obnoxious players. [on monitor <984, 31 secs>] Andre says, "Again, the solution to social problems is seen as "more (un)realestate!" [on monitor <985, 1 secs>] Yea picks up Megabeer. [on monitor <986, 8 secs>] Jay [to Pisthetairos]: Oh, it happens every couple weeks, some big article about `university promotes smut' or something like that. Seems to die down pretty fast. [on monitor <987, 4 secs>] Yea disappears suddenly for parts unknown. [on monitor <988, 10 secs>] Elizabeth says, "Rez, good point." [on monitor <989, 6 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "yo, Pis--when J. Helms gets wind of this bet ytou're last buck the shit will hit the fan" [on monitor <990, 24 secs>] Andre [to Pisthetairos]: the porno on the net argument does come up a good deal. [on monitor <991, 0 secs>] Jay's tenative solution to the size of the community is not to see his MOO as a city, but more of a long party with the wizards as hosts. [on monitor <992, 11 secs>] Cerulean_Guest goes out. [on monitor <993, 23 secs>] Person says, "Yes, I agree that restrictions, exclusion is necessary to create and maintain a subcommunity." [on monitor <994, 1 secs>] Jay feels free to throw obnoxious people out of his parties in real life, so... [on monitor <995, 10 secs>] PeterK says, "But what if you want something more organized than a part?"" [on monitor <996, 4 secs>] Andre says, "Inclusion presupposes exclusion." [on monitor <997, 13 secs>] Person agrees with Jay's point. [on monitor <998, 11 secs>] Person says, "So true, Andre." [on monitor <999, 16 secs>] PeterK says, "But that's the benevolent dictator approach.." [on monitor <1000, 41 secs>] Andre says, "And is just an other leviathan..." END OF TAPE 1 TAPE 2 [on monitor <1, 739587793 secs>] pause [on monitor <2, 0 secs>] . . . the camera pans left to right over Autumn Conference Room . . . [on monitor <3, 0 secs>] A mellow, comfortable room with lots of sofas and couches. Outside, the trees along Memorial Drive are a luminous golden color, and whitecaps are showing on the windswept Charles River Basin. The faint odour of burning leaves drifts in through an open window. [on monitor <4, 5 secs>] [on monitor <5, 1 secs>] destae19 says, "do you have any empirical data to support your thesis person?" [on monitor <6, 17 secs>] Rez says, "Hi Mom (part 2)" [on monitor <7, 20 secs>] destae19 says, "being theoretical again person. ugh" [on monitor <8, 13 secs>] Person shoves destae19 [on monitor <9, 10 secs>] destae19 shoves back and giggles with delight [on monitor <10, 11 secs>] Andre . o O ( uh, o! ) [on monitor <11, 8 secs>] destae19 says, "here we go andre, disorder!!!" [on monitor <12, 2 secs>] Jay suspects that if distributed vr technology improves, people will be given control over what services they provide. [on monitor <13, 2 secs>] Larry waves. "Bye now." [on monitor <14, 8 secs>] Rez says, "No slamming. What if Fugazi found out?" [on monitor <15, 1 secs>] Larry has disconnected. [on monitor <16, 1 secs>] Elizabeth says, "Is more (un) real estate really a solution? Isn't that just using technology as an ultimate solution instead of looking at the causes?" [on monitor <17, 3 secs>] PeterK [to Larry]: Bye [on monitor <18, 6 secs>] destae19 says, "just a little pogoing" [on monitor <19, 8 secs>] Jay eyes himself warily. [on monitor <20, 21 secs>] Jay didn't make sense there, let's try again. [on monitor <21, 27 secs>] Andre [to Elizabeth]: Well, this is my point, just slicing up more "space" isn't always the solution. [on monitor <22, 12 secs>] Jay [to Elizabeth]: Are we trying to solve human nature? :-) [on monitor <23, 0 secs>] Person says, "That's constructed!" [on monitor <24, 4 secs>] Andre says, "There are going to be conflicts in which we will need to continue to share space, resources, each others attention, and won't be able to just pull away into separate realities." [on monitor <25, 3 secs>] Rez says, "No. Adding more real-estate will not solve the basic issues. Actually, adding more real-estate will probably obfuscate any such issues." [on monitor <26, 9 secs>] Cerulean_Guest says, "how many here not in the UCLA class?"" [on monitor <27, 12 secs>] Person says, "Of course we are trying to perfect human behavior. What elese is there?" [on monitor <28, 1 secs>] Elizabeth says, "Andre, unfortunately, i'ts the easy solution, and that's the way people find it easiest to go." [on monitor <29, 16 secs>] Andre [to Person]: What a horrible thought! [on monitor <30, 4 secs>] Andre [to Elizabeth]: Then we may have some real problems! [on monitor <31, 2 secs>] Rez says, "MOO's and VR are the ultimate experiment in human behavior. To build you need to understand (or you should try)" [on monitor <32, 25 secs>] Jay says, "Adding more real-estate I think will solve some problems in the short run. If you're unhappy with how a MUD is run, you can start your own and try out your ideas." [on monitor <33, 4 secs>] Person agrees amiable with rez [on monitor <34, 2 secs>] Andre [to Jay]: True, and more real-estate isn't necessarily a bad thing, it can diffuse tensions. [on monitor <35, 3 secs>] Person ...amiably [on monitor <36, 1 secs>] Jay nods [on monitor <37, 9 secs>] PaulB materializes out of thin air. [on monitor <38, 0 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "hi Paul" [on monitor <39, 1 secs>] Andre says, "But it doesn't teach the lessopns of cooperation we probably need." [on monitor <40, 1 secs>] PeterK [to PaulB]: Greetings! [on monitor <41, 3 secs>] Ralph124c41 waves [on monitor <42, 5 secs>] Jay says, "There are lots of people IRL I avoid too." [on monitor <43, 7 secs>] PeterK waves [on monitor <44, 4 secs>] Andre waves [on monitor <45, 1 secs>] Person shoves Andre, nicely of course. [on monitor <46, 4 secs>] PaulB waveys [on monitor <47, 5 secs>] Jay is more interested in fun right now than beating his head against lessons of cooperation. [on monitor <48, 7 secs>] Jay says, "well" [on monitor <49, 9 secs>] Jay says, "`fun' loosely" [on monitor <50, 4 secs>] Cerulean_Guest waves [on monitor <51, 6 secs>] Andre catches Person just behind the knees, sending him to the floor. [on monitor <52, 7 secs>] Andre . o O ( oops ) [on monitor <53, 17 secs>] Mikol materializes out of thin air. [on monitor <54, 3 secs>] Person stands up, resuming his stature of sophistication. [on monitor <55, 3 secs>] Jay's primary training is not sociology of course. [on monitor <56, 15 secs>] Rez says, "I keep thinking about the 'failure' of McDonald's. It was completely based on expanding and expanding and expanding. When there got to be less world to expand into they started loosing money. . If we base our existence on expansionism (Manifest Destin" [on monitor <57, 18 secs>] Rez says, "Manifest Destiny). Do we set ourselves up for a fall?" [on monitor <58, 4 secs>] Jay thinks LambdaMOO kinda did that. [on monitor <59, 2 secs>] Andre [to Jay]: the lessons of cooperation are often the root of play (and fun) [on monitor <60, 3 secs>] The housekeeper arrives to cart Larry off to bed. [on monitor <61, 0 secs>] Jay thinks most MUDs do that actually [on monitor <62, 31 secs>] PeterK says, "really?"" [on monitor <63, 5 secs>] Bacall materializes out of thin air. [on monitor <64, 6 secs>] Andre clears his throat [on monitor <65, 2 secs>] Andre smiles [on monitor <66, 2 secs>] Jay [to Andre]: Oh sure. But I don't wanna hafta teach twenty million newbies them, so JaysHouseMOO somewhat resembles a closed utopia. [on monitor <67, 10 secs>] Cerulean_Guest ponders if 4 billion people could be served in a MUD [on monitor <68, 7 secs>] Andre [on monitor <69, 5 secs>] Andre looks around [on monitor <70, 1 secs>] Andre says, "Well, folks!" [on monitor <71, 0 secs>] Rez [on monitor <72, 12 secs>] Rez [on monitor <73, 12 secs>] Andre says, "We've proven something here tonight!" [on monitor <74, 4 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "might makes right?" [on monitor <75, 1 secs>] Person looks enlightened. [on monitor <76, 1 secs>] Mikol has disconnected. [on monitor <77, 6 secs>] Andre says, "This has been a fine discussion, and I'd like to thank al;l of the participants!" [on monitor <78, 6 secs>] Rez [to Jay]: but knowbots can take care of the newbies... [on monitor <79, 9 secs>] PeterK says, "My thanks to all as well!!!" [on monitor <80, 1 secs>] Andre says, "I think we have seen how a serious discussion can take place in virtual spaces." [on monitor <81, 4 secs>] Rez says, "This was interesting and fun..." [on monitor <82, 1 secs>] destae19 says, "thanks to you andre and peterk" [on monitor <83, 6 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "i'd just like to thanks my mom, and ...." [on monitor <84, 2 secs>] Jay [to Rez]: I think you're presuming a solution to the hard AI problem there. [on monitor <85, 11 secs>] PeterK bows and smiles [on monitor <86, 1 secs>] Bushi says, "thanks so much for letting me participate. You guys are great!" [on monitor <87, 2 secs>] destae19 says, "and i would like to thank myself and the fabs for inspiration. the end" [on monitor <88, 0 secs>] Andre says, "This class has moved over some very new and shifting terrain." [on monitor <89, 7 secs>] Elizabeth says, "And we've also seen that fun can be had in virtual spaces too." [on monitor <90, 5 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "yo petter, it was ahell of a quarter!" [on monitor <91, 4 secs>] PaulB mentions that many people around MediaMOO have been watching on TV...this has been very interesting. They all thank you. [on monitor <92, 2 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "three cheers for peterK...." [on monitor <93, 1 secs>] PeterK says, "Many thanks!" [on monitor <94, 1 secs>] Rez [to Jay]: well, yes and no. cdr's solution to programming the MOO was based on TV. And it seems quite useful... [on monitor <95, 1 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "hip....." [on monitor <96, 1 secs>] Andre says, "And I think we have done a fine job of getting to many of the central points in this area." [on monitor <97, 4 secs>] Bushi says, "Peter, when does our account end?" [on monitor <98, 9 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "hip...."" [on monitor <99, 5 secs>] PeterK says, "Not sure when your accounts end..." [on monitor <100, 13 secs>] Andre says, "So, I'd like to thankl evryone for their partiocipation in the class!" Tape 3 [on monitor <1, 739588436 secs>] pause [on monitor <2, 8 secs>] Azure_Guest waves to the room [on monitor <3, 2 secs>] Andre waves [on monitor <4, 2 secs>] Jay looks for Pavel to poke about diskbasing [on monitor <5, 0 secs>] Andre [on monitor <6, 3 secs>] Andre [on monitor <7, 3 secs>] Bushi Devil Grin! >:-) [on monitor <8, 1 secs>] SARAH waves [on monitor <9, 14 secs>] Andre says, "He's our man!" [on monitor <10, 7 secs>] Person shakes Peter's hand. [on monitor <11, 0 secs>] Scamper says, "this class was the best of my undergrad career, thanks" [on monitor <12, 2 secs>] PeterK smiles [on monitor <13, 0 secs>] . . .the camera zooms in on SARAH. . . [on monitor <14, 2 secs>] You see a player who should type '@describe me as ...'. [on monitor <15, 1 secs>] Rez [to Jay]: cdr can tell you more. There is a TV room around here somewhere... [on monitor <16, 5 secs>] Elizabeth jumps up and down enthusiastically. [on monitor <17, 0 secs>] . . .the camera zooms in on PeterK. . . [on monitor <18, 2 secs>] You see a player who should type '@describe me as ...'. [on monitor <19, 3 secs>] Jay nods, will go peer at it [on monitor <20, 4 secs>] Cerulean_Guest says, "Wow, high praise!"" [on monitor <21, 4 secs>] Person slaps everyone on the back. [on monitor <22, 1 secs>] PaulB can answers questions about th TV...he helped cdr design it. [on monitor <23, 8 secs>] Andre says, "I suspect it will be on nicco.sscnet.ucla.edu" [on monitor <24, 1 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "MY GHOD! the din of furious typing!!" [on monitor <25, 10 secs>] PeterK says, "and that's the way it was..." [on monitor <26, 1 secs>] Jay says, "someone shoudl make it available in gopher somewhere" [on monitor <27, 2 secs>] Bushi says, "Good luck everyone on your paper and finals!!!" [on monitor <28, 0 secs>] SARAH says, "" [on monitor <29, 4 secs>] Cerulean_Guest [on monitor <30, 6 secs>] Andre says, "Bye!" [on monitor <31, 0 secs>] . . .the camera zooms in on Andre. . . [on monitor <32, 3 secs>] A tall thin bearded man with longish brown hair with hints of red. He is dressed like a moderator. [on monitor <33, 1 secs>] destae19 says, "or thank you all very much you have lucky faces, the end!" [on monitor <34, 1 secs>] Andre waves [on monitor <35, 1 secs>] PeterK says, "see you soon" [on monitor <36, 6 secs>] Person says, "Ah the sweet sorrow of goodbyes." [on monitor <37, 0 secs>] . . .the camera zooms in on PeterK. . . [on monitor <38, 2 secs>] You see a player who should type '@describe me as ...'. [on monitor <39, 12 secs>] Elizabeth says, "I had a great time everyone, thanks!" [on monitor <40, 0 secs>] PeterK starts hearing music in the background [on monitor <41, 0 secs>] . . .the camera zooms in on Elizabeth. . . [on monitor <42, 1 secs>] You see a player who should type '@describe me as ...'. [on monitor <43, 10 secs>] Rez says, "How can there be any sin in sincere. How can there be any good in goodbye..." [on monitor <44, 4 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "how about a benediction?" [on monitor <45, 1 secs>] SARAH says, "thanks peterk this has been an interesting quarter" [on monitor <46, 1 secs>] Elizabeth says, "Hey Ralph, you haven't focused in on ME yet!" [on monitor <47, 9 secs>] Bushi fades to black [on monitor <48, 2 secs>] Rez says, "(stolen from Cole Porter, I believe...I can't recall)" [on monitor <49, 1 secs>] destae19 says, "oh such words rez, i will quote that in my dissertation some day!" [on monitor <50, 4 secs>] Ralph124c41 says read above elizabeth [on monitor <51, 5 secs>] The housekeeper arrives to cart Mikol off to bed. [on monitor <52, 0 secs>] . . .the camera zooms in on Elizabeth. . . [on monitor <53, 8 secs>] You see a player who should type '@describe me as ...'. [on monitor <54, 7 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "wave!" [on monitor <55, 1 secs>] Pisthetairos says, "Anyone interested in doing something after this is over?" [on monitor <56, 6 secs>] Bushi says, "yibbidy yibbidy yibbidy... thats all folks!" [on monitor <57, 3 secs>] Elizabeth says, "Thanks!" [on monitor <58, 0 secs>] PaulB disappears suddenly for parts unknown. [on monitor <59, 7 secs>] Andre says, "Food anyone?" [on monitor <60, 2 secs>] Scamper says, "yes! to Pisthetairos" [on monitor <61, 2 secs>] Albert disappears. [on monitor <62, 6 secs>] Albert goes home. [on monitor <63, 1 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "why spoil a good beer buzz?" [on monitor <64, 3 secs>] Person says, "Yah, where's the post-party." [on monitor <65, 5 secs>] Elizabeth says, "Happy Hour at the Oar House! Dollar beers until 8!" [on monitor <66, 1 secs>] Bushi has disconnected. [on monitor <67, 3 secs>] Jay says, "woo!" [on monitor <68, 11 secs>] destae19 says, "ralph knows how to drink!" [on monitor <69, 7 secs>] Andre says, "Jay, some along?" [on monitor <70, 1 secs>] Pisthetairos says, "You said it.." [on monitor <71, 2 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "hey, i live a block from the oar house" [on monitor <72, 13 secs>] Andre says, "Jay -- that was come along?" [on monitor <73, 4 secs>] Jay would love to, but there's kinda a couple states in the way, see... [on monitor <74, 17 secs>] Elizabeth says, "So let's all go" [on monitor <75, 12 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "hey Jay, space is nothing!" [on monitor <76, 11 secs>] Person says, "Hey, Peter just invited us all over to his house!" [on monitor <77, 2 secs>] Elizabeth says, "Okay, goodbye everyone!" [on monitor <78, 0 secs>] Jay invites you all over to JaysHouseMOO, his VR house :-) [on monitor <79, 1 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "GREAT! Everybody in the hot tub!!!" [on monitor <80, 4 secs>] Person says, "What a great guy!" [on monitor <81, 1 secs>] Bacall disappears suddenly for parts unknown. [on monitor <82, 0 secs>] Jay says, "jh.ccs.neu.edu 1709" [on monitor <83, 8 secs>] Rez wave bye [on monitor <84, 16 secs>] Scamper says, "at this point, I cannot drive, I'm Zimafied!" [on monitor <85, 6 secs>] Jade_Guest materializes out of thin air. [on monitor <86, 3 secs>] Jay waves [on monitor <87, 3 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "i thoght zimafied was a character fom the Bible...." [on monitor <88, 8 secs>] Andre says, "Ok, Bye All!" [on monitor <89, 1 secs>] Jade_Guest goes out. [on monitor <90, 6 secs>] Yellow Cab drives in. [on monitor <91, 0 secs>] SARAH qwaves to jay [on monitor <92, 1 secs>] PeterK [to Jay]: Bye! [on monitor <93, 4 secs>] The cab drives out. [on monitor <94, 5 secs>] Andre says, "Anyone coming along?" [on monitor <95, 1 secs>] Yellow Cab drives in. [on monitor <96, 4 secs>] Jay waves [on monitor <97, 1 secs>] Ralph124c41 waves [on monitor <98, 1 secs>] Andre is no longer the moderator. [on monitor <99, 23 secs>] Andre hails the cab and steps in. [on monitor <100, 36 secs>] Ralph124c41 thinks Andre will always be our moderator TAPE 4 [on monitor <1, 739588926 secs>] pause [on monitor <2, 0 secs>] . . . the camera pans left to right over Autumn Conference Room . . . [on monitor <3, 0 secs>] A mellow, comfortable room with lots of sofas and couches. Outside, the trees along Memorial Drive are a luminous golden color, and whitecaps are showing on the windswept Charles River Basin. The faint odour of burning leaves drifts in through an open window. [on monitor <4, 2 secs>] [on monitor <5, 1 secs>] Rez undulates [on monitor <6, 0 secs>] Elizabeth waves [on monitor <7, 2 secs>] Person says, "We all have too much hot air for this length tapes." [on monitor <8, 1 secs>] Jay [to Person]: no, this is a good design decision [on monitor <9, 1 secs>] Dorothy waves [on monitor <10, 0 secs>] SARAH waves [on monitor <11, 1 secs>] Ralph124c41 says, "okay everybody...." [on monitor <12, 1 secs>] Pisthetairos waves [on monitor <13, 2 secs>] PeterK waves! [on monitor <14, 1 secs>] Albert materializes out of thin air. [on monitor <15, 1 secs>] Jay [to Person]: keeps the db from filling up with spam [on monitor <16, 4 secs>] Azure_Guest waves [on monitor <17, 1 secs>] Scamper says, "flicks off camera" [on monitor <18, 2 secs>] SARAH waves! [on monitor <19, 1 secs>] Bacall materializes out of thin air. [on monitor <20, 3 secs>] The housekeeper arrives to cart Bushi off to bed. [on monitor <21, 1 secs>] destae19 waves and smiles and kicks in the air [on monitor <22, 4 secs>] Andre wave [on monitor <23, 4 secs>] Andre waves [on monitor <24, 17 secs>] Jay [to Person]: requires an action to continue recording [on monitor <25, 2 secs>] Person gestures to the camera. [on monitor <26, 2 secs>] Andre is now the moderator. [on monitor <27, 739588980 secs>] pause Afterword Seminar members gathered in the Microcomputer Lab at Haines Hall on the UCLA campus, distributing themselves among the ranks of terminals installed there. It occurred to me that all of us being in the same location IRL (In Real Life) would undermine the sense of "virtuality" (which if not a full-fledged word, must be on its way to becoming so). It might be an invitation to cross-chat. Only an occasional extraneous comment to something that had appeared on screen filtered through the room. Participating in the seminar, it seemed, required focusing on the screen, and being prepared to type-in a response as quickly as possible. If one did not react fast, by the time the message had been received and redistributed to computers spaced across the United States the right moment for a bon mot or a perspicacious comment was long past. No wonder one's typing skills are a measure of status in contemporary cyberspace. (That a a change, to my mind, from the first generation of cybernauts in the early 1980s, who always impressed me as be unable to type more than a few words a minute, even so spelling most of them wrong.) It's hard to miss a certain tone of frivolity in the transcript of our seminar. Playfulness seems an ever-present element of cyberspace and virtual reality, one whose influence can be ameliorated or surpressed but never eradicated. No matter how serious the conversation someone offered a wry comment. In part because there are no real sanctions for having done so in cyberspace. In the Board room of a Fortune 500 Company an comic twist or a gratuitous pun might meet with significant looks of disapproval, perhaps the significant clearing of the President's throat. All these "devices" are stripped from cyperspace and about all a moderator can do in administering order is to proffer a stern lecture, which may be a bit like swatting a fly with a .357 magnum. In this respect cyberspace and virtual congregations are a kind of waterless hot tub. Everybody's in the same hot pot and buck naked. But where IRL a company of strangers finding themselves in that situation might well shy away from looking at one another's privates, not so in cyberspace where you can look away--with words. The more free and easy atmosphere of virtual meetings has been commented upon by researchers. In our situation, suffice to say, anarchy appeared regularly, in waves, when attentions wandered (the beach ball syndrone familiar from Los Angeles Dodger baseball games). Or it was just plain impossible to avoid replying to another's comment despite the fact the main course of the conversation was headed in another direction. Threads of conversation developed. Some were watching and responding to one or another of the invited guests--who made relatively lengthy statements. (Pavel Curtis somehow managed to pipe in a rather lengthy paragraph in the twinkling of an eye which was greeted with audible surprise and admiration in the room.) Others were several moments back, cross-talking about different points raised by a previous speaker. Amy Bruckman a student at the MIT Media Lab and the director, if that is the proper term, of MediaMOO, was received with great attention. She described her research--MediaMOO is designed as a forum for research--into using MOO-type environments for teaching children, especially girls. Wade Roush, another graduate student in science and technology at MIT and the designer of the STS Centre in which our seminar was conducted, explained that his interest was in the use of virtual spaces among practitioners of the humanities, as meeting places and as places for the exchange of interests. Wade offered one of the most surprising comments of the afternoon, that he had been advised by people at MIT that he was "endangering my reputation as a academic by having anything to do with virtual reality." (pg. 23.) Questioned about that statement Wade replied that MOOs and virtual spaces were "perceived as vapourware, more hype than substance. Not many people yet understand the potential of VR as an educational or professional medium." (pg. 23.) Pavel Curtis of the Xerox Parc research facility, described the directions in which he was taking the idea of MOOs. It was known that he is working on a system devoted to and for astronomers, one in which they would be able to exchange not only typed comments but photographs and other "documents" of their craft. Less well known was an experiment Pavel described in which portions of the Parc facility were wired together for real time audio and video. Players in a MOO would then be able to enter a virtual room and see and hear another player who happened to be in that same virtual space, although physically located at some distance. He described it as a "new and fruitful medium of casual communication." (pg. 27.) All three guests addressed an issue raised by PeterK: that of deviance and methods for enforcing control in cyberspace. Amy, as master of MediaMOO, prefers "being friendly and understanding," though she added that this required a director taking time. Pavel Curtis noted that abuse and antisocial behavior in LambdaMOO, at which members of S285k had encountered various forms of rough treatment, was meeting the problem through deploying a kind of cyber-democracy, built upon petitions and ballots. (pg. 33.) It sounded like a kind of cyberspace condominium government. One seminar student asked about how art got done in virtual spaces, with the implication that some art and the doing of some art might be a positive to some and a negative, a disturbance, to others. It was an interesting question, raising as it did a consideration of the geography of cyberspace. In the "real" old West, on the frontier, to which cyberspace is frequently compared, if a settler didn't like his neighbors, or in turn was locally unappreciated, he or she just moved on, over the hill, into the next valley. In a sense that's also possible in cyberspace. Cyberspace can be "built on" and built up by players programming, almost indefinitely. New players can add on any kind of configuration they desire, limiting its connections to the pre- existing just about any way they wish. The only ultimate limitation is the amount of memory available in some distant computer, and memory is, in computing terms, increasingly inexpensive. But unlike the old West, cybernauts seek out interaction. Cyberspace is about interaction, and it's only metaphorically possible to move into the next county. It's not just lonely on the electronic frontier; it's impossible. The debate over the size and space and dynamics of virtual communities went on at length. Perhaps Pavel's response summarized a main threat of thinking about virtual spaces: "As in real life, there will be virtual communities into which you will fit and ones into which you won't. Why should VR be any different in this respect from RL?" (pg. 37.) Before long our guests left--it being three hours later for them. The conversation took a more informal turn among seminar members. It seemed no one wanted to leave. Good-byes took up two additional tapes (almost 200 speech acts)! Finally, however, it was time to sign off and conclude the first class in the sociology of cyberspace. If there is a comment which seems to summarize the MOO experience, it's pitfalls and it's potentials, it was this offered by Amy Bruckman: "By being between reality and unreality, (MOOs) help us to understand the nature of reality." (pg. 38.) And Pavel Curtis noted: "Remember: it's only the space that's new; the people are exactly the same as before." (pg. 47.)